Episode 20 / Garrett Gravesen
You’ll Never Believe What This Entrepreneur Did to Find Courage: Garrett Gravesen’s 197 Country Journey
This episode is for you if you’ve ever wondered:
The transformative power of an encounter in an African orphanage and its influence on Garrett's life journey.
The critical role of embracing vulnerability and combating imposter syndrome in pursuing ambitious life goals.
The immense value of supporting and understanding the aspirations of the people behind the scenes in any organization.
Life lessons from Garrett's global travels and how confronting risk and uncertainty can lead to profound personal growth.
About GARRETT
Garrett Gravesen, the Professor of Possibility, stitches a passport quilt of tales so outlandish they make Marco Polo’s adventures look like a weekend getaway. He learned to ski in North Korea and once visited 52 countries in 52 weeks with only a tuxedo and a toothbrush. Garrett famously ran with the bulls in Spain, where he won by a whisker, fueled by nothing but sangria and an unshakable belief to not look back. He has started a nonprofit organization, spoken alongside Mandela’s cell mate in South Africa, and was honored with the same award as JFK. Yet he has never eaten a vegetable, had a sip of water, or run a mile. Garrett proudly dons a “0.0 sticker” on his chariot of choice. When love is in the air he doesn’t miss. He proposed on a plane flight at 30,000 feet. On a Tuesday. And got married the next day. Garrett’s passport is his narrative – each stamp is a story, and each visa is a verse. He has stood on Everest Base Camp, slid down The Great Wall of China, and survived Antarctica for 10 days with nothing but a tuxedo when the airline lost his luggage. Luckily, he looked like the penguins. He’s scaled three companies from scratch to more than seven figures each, filmed a documentary from Kenya to Cape Town that was saved on a drive he has since lost, but once salsa danced his way to victory one sultry night in Havana Cuba. Garrett’s travels aren’t just about the thrill; they’re lessons in living. With his unique blend of education and audacity, he’s always uncovering lessons from parts unknown. UGA in economics. Elf School in Iceland. Then he traded in folklore for finance at Harvard Business School. “10 Seconds of Insane Courage,” Garrett’s magnum opus, isn’t just a book, but a call to action. A friendly nudge to jump off the high dive into the pool of life, where every tick of the clock is an opportunity for courage and the serendipity that awaits when you turn every “what if” into a “why not.” His life reads like an atlas infused with adrenaline – a spectacle, a seminar, a symphony of the splendid. Garrett, the man with a suitcase full of charm and a pocket full of laughter, is not your typical podcast guest. He is a human carousel of courage and provides the spark for inspiring the extraordinary in others. Garrett has survived great loss, stepped foot in all 197 countries, and won the same award as Elvis.
“Trade I for you. What does that mean? When you look at leaders and they tend to say, I want to do this, or I want this, or I want to get this, or we're not really inspired or rallied around those people when they trade I for you, where it's, how can I help you do this? How can I help you get this? How can I help you become this? Those are the people we want to work for, we want to work with, we want to rally around.”
Garrett Gravesen
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Lindsey Epperly [00:00:02]:
All right, lovely listeners, welcome back to another episode of who made you the Boss? Where I am joined today by my dear friend Garrett Graveson. And Garrett and I were just talking about how usually I record the intro to these conversations separately. But then Garrett did what he always does. He did things a little bit differently, and he sent me over a bio that is so over the top. I was like, Garrett, I feel silly reading this because it's so special that it needs your energy brought to it. So I'm reading this bio live, and if you guys are hearing this, that means my wonderful producer, Betsy approved it. If you're not hearing it, well, then I guess you're not hearing it. But I want to welcome Garrett Graveson, the professor of possibility who stitches a passport quilt of tales so outlandish they make Marco Polo's adventures look like a weekend getaway.
Lindsey Epperly [00:00:53]:
Garrett, is that true?
Garrett Gravesen [00:00:54]:
It's going to be true as long as we keep going. Let's keep going.
Lindsey Epperly [00:00:59]:
His travels are not just about the thrill. They are lessons in living. He has learned to ski in North Korea, and he once visited 52 countries in 52 weeks with only a tuxedo and a toothbrush. And if you're watching the YouTube video of this, you know, same tuxedo, you've definitely washed it, right?
Garrett Gravesen [00:01:17]:
100% washed it. But I've had to go through seven over the course of every country in the world. Amazing.
Lindsey Epperly [00:01:23]:
We're going to get all into the travel side of things. But then, more about Garrett, his heart, what he's done. What has he not done? He started a nonprofit organization. He's spoken alongside Mandela's cellmate in South Africa. He has scaled three companies from scratch to more than seven figures each. And then his magnum opus is 10 seconds of insane courage, which is not just a book, but a call to action. We're going to get into that today. And he really believes that every tick of the clock is an opportunity for courage and the serendipity that awaits when you turn every what if into a why not? So we're definitely diving into that and just a little bit more on him.
Lindsey Epperly [00:02:03]:
I know Garrett personally. We've been friends for about a decade now. I have seen him go through the most amazing highs and lows. This man has survived great loss. He has achieved incredible goals. He stepped foot in all 197 countries, which has been very fun to live vicariously on. And you even won the same award as Elvis. Things you haven't done, though, Garrett.
Lindsey Epperly [00:02:22]:
You have not ever eaten a vegetable. You have not had a sip of water you have never ran a mile, and you have never been a guest on who made you the boss until today. So welcome.
Garrett Gravesen [00:02:31]:
Thank you so much. I cannot top that intro. Luckily, I helped write it, so I'm going to say yes. Approved. Please put it into the intro for this podcast.
Lindsey Epperly [00:02:40]:
Lovely. Well, I'm thinking it's going to make it in there, because I don't know that I can reread that without seeing you smile and enthusiastically cheer on, yes, this is your story, and I cannot wait to dive into it with you. Really? We usually kick off these interviews with the question that the show title possesses. Right. Who made you the boss? What was that exact moment for you? And I'm going to plug a story that you told me along the way, and I'm curious if this was the defining moment or just one of many steps. I remember you talking about. You were sitting on the steps of somewhere with a girl that you were dating at the time and a couple of friends. And one friend was like, a virtuoso violinist or something.
Lindsey Epperly [00:03:16]:
I'm probably getting all these facts wrong, but they were all going on to do these amazing things, and then they turned to you and said, garrett, what about you? What are you doing with your life? And you're like, oh, God. Do you remember this story?
Garrett Gravesen [00:03:26]:
Yeah, of course. I call it from heartbreak to Harvard. So I love catchy, snappy titles. But it was a girlfriend. It was many moons ago, but she did get into Harvard, and I did not. And so let's start there. So, for anyone that was an insecure overachiever early in life, I'll be the first one to raise my hand. I wanted to go to Harvard out of high school.
Garrett Gravesen [00:03:47]:
Certainly didn't. But my girlfriend did. And I remember going to visit her. I was at the University of Georgia. Go, dogs. And I was even the student body president, which I thought was amazing, of 30,000 people. But then I went to go visit her up at Harvard. And I remember sitting around and one person, like you said, first of all, they all got into Harvard, so let's just start there.
Garrett Gravesen [00:04:10]:
That's just immediately like, okay, ego check. And then, yeah. One was a Rhodes scholar, one was the number one flute player in the know. One had kind of written the next version of, like, imagine Hamilton. And then, as kind of everyone's going around, they looked at me and they said, so what have you ever done? And I'd never felt so small in my entire life. But it made me realize, you know, I may not be the smartest or even good at a musical instrument. I may never write a Broadway play, but I could be the best version of me, the most unique, authentic version of myself. And I didn't have it figured out at the time, and I didn't know it for many, many years.
Garrett Gravesen [00:04:53]:
But eventually I had the courage, the courage to say, hey, I'm not like everybody else. And that's what makes me unique. And I'm going to lean fully into that and become the biggest, boldest version of who I am. And I think that's something each and every one of us can do if we have the courage to pursue it.
Lindsey Epperly [00:05:10]:
That's beautiful. Do you feel like that was your defining who made you the boss moment? Or was there another one that actually kind of kicked you and made you say, I'm taking the reins?
Garrett Gravesen [00:05:21]:
Yes. So let's fly 8000 miles around the world, on the other side of the world, and let's just step straight into Hong Kong. So I think that was my defining moment. I said after college, I wanted to make money. I want to be an investment banker. And I got an internship my final year at UGA doing investment banking in Hong Kong for Merrill lynch. And then I quickly realized what we all think on paper is great, oftentimes is not. And so I work 18 hours a day, six and a half days a week.
Garrett Gravesen [00:05:47]:
And my moment that kicked me in the teeth was I watched my boss miss he and his wife's anniversary and four year old daughter's birthday in the same week. And I said, I wasn't married, didn't have kids at the time, but I said, I never want to be that husband. I certainly don't want to be that father. And I don't think this career is for me. But I had no plan B. I had no other option. I had no idea what I was going to do. And so I kind of had to lean back on courage and said, well, what would I do if everything was to start over and I had one more chance? And I said, well, mom and dad, I'm not going to graduate on time.
Garrett Gravesen [00:06:25]:
They were really upset by that. I'm not coming back to the University of Georgia. They were really upset with that. I said, but I promise I'll graduate, but I want to take my last summer, and I want to go do something completely different that's true and authentic to who I am. And I love volunteering and I love giving back, and I loved exploring. And after seeing Asia, I really wanted to go to Africa. And I said, not to make money, but do something impactful. And I ended up there at an AIDS orphanage in the middle of Nairobi, Kenya.
Garrett Gravesen [00:06:51]:
And I knew nothing about volunteering, giving back this children or this cause or how to help or how to connect. But I knew I wanted to do something. And I met one little boy, and he couldn't pronounce my name. Garrett couldn't say graveson. So he called me Gigi, my initials. Now everyone calls me Gigi. My Instagram is Gigi worldwide. But it started from a ten year old little boy with a big, baggy orange shirt and a belt loop that he had to put on the last one to keep his little pants up.
Garrett Gravesen [00:07:16]:
And his name was Martin. And he said one thing, Lindsay. He said one thing that I'll always remember. The first day I came, as I was leaving, he said, everyone says they'll be back. Will you really come back and see us? And that was the moment where I said, maybe I can use my time and my talents to impact and inspire other people. And it's got to start right now with this one promise to this one little boy named Martin. And days turn into weeks, weeks turn into months. And instead of coming back after the summer to finish graduating from Uga, I took an entire year in Africa at this orphanage.
Garrett Gravesen [00:07:51]:
And it was the best decision I ever made.
Lindsey Epperly [00:07:54]:
That's incredible. Was that the basis of hero? Right, Uga. Hero is what you started.
Garrett Gravesen [00:07:59]:
It was. And so, as life or serendipity or however you want. After I was kind of like this golden boy at Uga that was student body president, I had this internship doing investment banking. I leave it all behind and go to Africa. Uga says, would you be interested in being the graduation speaker at Uga? And I say, absolutely. What does that mean? They say, it's you, a microphone inside the stadium of 30,000 people. And I said, you know, I would absolutely love to. And I was.
Garrett Gravesen [00:08:32]:
And I wrote two speeches, one that was six minutes, which is what the committee said. The only amount of time I had in front of all those people. And I said, what a travesty to use a speech and just talk about myself. I want to have the courage to write a second speech, which I did. So I put one speech, the official one, in my left pocket, the big speech about inspiring the crowd around, doing something bigger than ourselves in my right pocket. And I walked up to that podium not knowing what I was going to do. Was I going to choose courage or comfort? Courage or comfort? Left pocket or right pocket? And when I got up there, I chose courage. And I pulled out the extra speech and I talked about this time in Africa with that little boy, Martin, and how we can all be a hero for someone or something in life that's bigger than us.
Garrett Gravesen [00:09:16]:
And I challenged the audience as I stood out on the branch so far that it may break before I got there, that I was going to launch a charity for children called Hero for children. Hearts everywhere, reaching out for kids in our state and our country, just like the ones in Africa at that orphanage. And in the audience that day were the legendary athletic director, Vince Dooley, the head football coach, a man of faith, Mark Rickt. And they both were excited, hopefully a little bit inspired along with a crowd. I spoke for 18 minutes that day, not six. Got a standing ovation. And on Monday morning, Vince Dooley called and said he wanted to be a member of our board of directors and help make that dream possible for these kids and this cause however he could. And that started a long journey.
Garrett Gravesen [00:10:04]:
And we just celebrated this year, our 20th anniversary of that organization, hero for children. Hero for children. Helping children in their quality of life care with HIV and AIDS.
Lindsey Epperly [00:10:16]:
Wow. Garrett, that is incredible. I actually didn't know that full story. I didn't realize that was your connection with Vince Dooley. I knew you were dear friends with him, and I had no idea that's where it all began. That's amazing.
Garrett Gravesen [00:10:27]:
Thank you.
Lindsey Epperly [00:10:28]:
Congratulations on 20 years.
Garrett Gravesen [00:10:29]:
Yes.
Lindsey Epperly [00:10:31]:
That is so inspiring. And I have so many individual questions from that about how that might have inspired travels, how that might have inspired your next goals and what I want to focus on. You've talked a lot about authenticity, and I know that's really important to you. And I think one of the things that I admire most about you from the outside looking in is that you very rarely define yourself based off of one specific thing that you've been building. Right. Like, you've started and scaled three companies, of which I only even knew about one, and I've known you for a decade. So I think you just draw people in because you are very unabashedly you. And so I'm just curious, how do you think that is that you've managed to separate Garrett and all of these wonderful ideas and all the things you want to do for the world and whatever it is you're building at the time?
Garrett Gravesen [00:11:20]:
Yeah. I just meet people where they're at. Right. Like, I always know one of the best leadership lessons I always heard was trade eye for you. Trade I for you. And when you think about leadership. Right. And I love leadership.
Garrett Gravesen [00:11:32]:
And we can talk about another company where we help build chick fil a leader academy. I think Chick fil A is just an amazing company that truly embodies servant leadership. But I like to keep things short and sticky. So I say, trade I for you. What does that mean? When you look at leaders and they tend to say, I want to do this, or I want this, or I want to get this, or we're not really inspired or rallied around those people when they trade I for you, where it's, how can I help you do this? How can I help you get this? How can I help you become this? Those are the people we want to work for, we want to work with, we want to rally around. And I've always tried to have that mantra, how do I continue to trade I for you? How can I help you do this? You become this, you get that. And I've just found that when you kind of go hands open, eyes wide, like, what can I do to help and serve other people? It certainly comes around. Not all the time, but I've always just tried to treat life like that.
Garrett Gravesen [00:12:28]:
Like, I would love to help other people with their big goals, with their big dreams. And a lot of people have come alongside me. I've been so blessed and fortunate. I think I saw it very early in life when giving a speech about others. Vince Dooley kind of stepped in and wanted to help others, and I just admire people that do that. So I've tried to model it along the way and just meet people where they're at and help where I can.
Lindsey Epperly [00:12:50]:
That's incredible. And that may have been the answer to the next question that I had for you, because I'm just asking out of pure admiration in the way that you have managed to scale the businesses that you've created, you've got to allot your time wisely. And I imagine you're not able to spend all 24/7 in each of these businesses when you're building them because you have so many other tremendous goals that you're working on. And so I was even curious how you would set these companies up for success in a way that has allowed them to move forward with or without you present.
Garrett Gravesen [00:13:21]:
Yeah. And this is going to be a little contrarian, but I think this is where businesses get it wrong. I think courageous leadership is having the courage to embrace personal goals. So a lot of times we want to only focus on professional goals, great leaders. There is no problem at all knowing what your people really want, knowing what uniquely inspires and drives them. Lindsay, if I know that you want to become the next Gordon Ramsay of cooking or Marie Konda of like, I want to know that about my people. I want to encourage them to do that. I want to encourage them to do that outside the office during their vacations, on the weekends.
Garrett Gravesen [00:13:55]:
It doesn't have to know you do that, and that's outside of the office. It's like, no, I want to get to know you as a, like, I want to know your uniqueness. And I've always shared my uniqueness with others that my dream is to one day visit every country in the world. And so I'm going to go after it, it with verve and vigor as much as I can. But what is it that drives you? And I think when you can be authentic and really get to know people as people. Right. Like, at the end of the day, sales comes down to people. Marketing comes down to people.
Garrett Gravesen [00:14:22]:
Leadership, organizational structure, it's a people driven idea every way through the value chain. And so if we can really get to know our people, which I think is one of my gifts, of just, hey, I'm going to create a safe space in an open environment. Tell me what you want to do. I want to embrace your personal goals right alongside with you, and I want to encourage you to do those things. I think when you have a boss or a friend or someone leading or running a company that truly cares about who you are as an individual and really wants you to succeed inside and outside the workplace, people tend to really want to help out, work harder and serve more. And so I've always tried to lead with that in mind.
Lindsey Epperly [00:15:02]:
That's incredible. Well, and you model that as well because that's why this allure has always been something that I've appreciated about you, that you are able to both build your professional goals and go after your personal goals. There's never, I'm going to wait till I retire and I'm going to do it. And I'm curious how much of that was inspired by your relationship with your dad and losing him in your early 20s, right? Was it?
Garrett Gravesen [00:15:27]:
Yeah, most of it, to be honest. So I love my father. My father was my hero. I talk about him all the time. But we have this false idea that we have forever. There's no deadlines on personal dreams, right? If we're in a company, we got to hit first quarter, second quarter, third or quarter, fourth quarter goals. That doesn't exist with personal dreams. Like, personal dreams have no deadlines.
Garrett Gravesen [00:15:51]:
And so for my dad, I always want to do a father son trip with him. And so we do what typical people do. All right. Next birthday, next decade, next. So when he turned 50, father son trip didn't happen. A decade goes by at 60, it doesn't happen. And so, finally, when he reached 62, after working 40 years in his life, no more excuses. I was so excited.
Garrett Gravesen [00:16:12]:
He retired. And after 40 years of working, 30 days later, he found out he has stage four cancer and a year left to live. And oftentimes, life's not fair. And I was running a company, and Chickfila was our client, and they are growing and exploding, and we were, too. But I said, you get one mom and one dad in life, and chick fil a being chick fil a said, you take as much time as you need and be there for your father. And so I moved in with him, and I was his caretaker. And every day, I journaled and I asked these deep questions about why we have these fears and how do we overcome them more, and how do we say yes more often? And it was those conversations with my dad that I was never going to write a book. But I thought maybe these lessons could help at least one person or a few people, or maybe I could share it with just the folks at Chick fil a that we work with and train.
Garrett Gravesen [00:17:03]:
But it turned out to be everyone faces these things. We all know, the fear of the unknown, the fear of the first step, the fear of failure, fear that we're not good enough. And I said, I'm not good at long term things. I like short term action. So I called it the catchy title, 10 seconds of insane courage, which is just, how do we get going in the moment, and how do we face these fears more often? But it all started with a conversation with my dad, him waiting till the end and not being able to do these things. And I want to encourage more people to act now, say yes more often, and use those 10 seconds of insane courage to truly live the life that they want to live.
Lindsey Epperly [00:17:41]:
Yeah. Was this the point where the goal of reaching all 197 countries was first born?
Garrett Gravesen [00:17:48]:
Absolutely. And so, dad, if you know much about cancer, and we've probably all had a family member or a friend or someone that's gone through it, is you go through chemo and you go through radiation, and it beats down your body. Well, if you back up two decades before, I had talked all about quality of life care for these children with HIV and AIDS. They may not have long lives, but they have important ones. And how do we make the most of their lives right now? And so I built know nonprofit organization on the belief that quality of life care matters and I carried that right into that time with my father. And I said, you know what? Screw it. Let's do it. Famous Richard Branson quote, like, let's come off the chemo, let's get rid of the radiation, and let's do that father son trip we always talked about.
Garrett Gravesen [00:18:32]:
And so we did. And the closest, coolest place we could find was Havana, Cuba. We went down there for three days. I bought him a big straw hat and the fattest cuban cigar you can possibly imagine, which is not what you're supposed to do when you have cancer. But it was a father, a son, and a memory we would always have in a 1958 cherry red classic convertible on the streets of Havana. And it was a memory I would always cherish and still do to this day. And I had a chance to ask my dad, what advice can you give me? Leave me with what do you truly believe I need to know? And he simply said, I want you to take one thing you'd be insanely proud of and go do it now. Find one thing you'd be insanely proud of and go do it now.
Garrett Gravesen [00:19:24]:
And for me, I was like, what better way to honor and respect my dad than to take all of his lessons, put it together, and go share that message now. And so that's what became the book. And I said, all right, if the book is called 10 seconds of insane courage, could I take it around the world? And then, if I took it around the world, could I go tell this message to everyone that would listen in every country around the world? And that's exactly what's happened over the past decade.
Lindsey Epperly [00:19:51]:
That's incredible. It's been so fun to follow along with that journey. I mean, you have had just incredible experiences. I still have my postcard that you sent me from the underwater post office. Wait, where was that? Tell me. I mean, when you're traveling like this, let's talk about these travel experiences a little bit. What you've learned, how that shaped you, how you're launching all of these endeavors beside it. There had to be some mental and emotional challenges, right? I mean, can you tell us about some of the hurdles you faced while you were trying to reach that goal of one and 197?
Garrett Gravesen [00:20:27]:
Yeah. So we can start with the Taliban in Afghanistan, North Korea. I actually got stuck on an island called Kirabash. It's Kirabadi, if you try to spell it. But the most famous book in that island is called the Sex Lives of cannibals. And you're like, oh, no, I'm stuck. COVID's on the way. It was right before March 2020.
Garrett Gravesen [00:20:48]:
I've got to get out of here. This is bad news. So that's a fun one. In North Korea, it was wild. If you go there, there's only one hotel that tourists stay in because there's no tourists that go. And if you google it, there's actually a missing fifth floor. And so in this hotel. So we actually went with a group of business school colleagues, and we were told that, no, there actually is a fifth floor.
Garrett Gravesen [00:21:15]:
It may be missing on the elevator. It goes 123-4678 910. But the fifth floor is a surveillance floor. So everything you say or do is monitored and recorded in your room.
Lindsey Epperly [00:21:26]:
Oh, God.
Garrett Gravesen [00:21:28]:
And so it's kind of like this Truman show where everything is kind of created especially for you, for that experience, and nothing's real. But then I have to take a step back because I love leadership, and I go, someone's always watching you anyways. How are you going to act? How are you going to respond? How are you going to treat people? What are you going to do when no one's watching? It's like, that's the true test of character, right? Integrity. And I was like, just because officially, I know it was kind of a reminder of. But this happens anyways, right? Like, I really want to always be an authentic version of myself in, like, we had to get airlifted across the country because of the Taliban. We went in, in Kabul right before the presidential election. The Taliban, both sides knew that the Taliban was going to come over, take over Kabul, take over the country. I'm like, oh, this is the worst timing.
Garrett Gravesen [00:22:19]:
But if we didn't go, then we wouldn't get in and I wouldn't reach 197. So we decided to leave Kabul, go to the northwestern part of Afghanistan called Bamyan, because there were street bombings every day in Kabul on this little airline called Cam Air, which, if k a m you Google it, is like, the worst ranked airline in the world. It's like, more plane crashes, horrible safety records. But I'm like, it's better than staying in Kabul. And so we went, and as soon as we landed in Bamyan, they shut down the airline. No more flights out. Again, courageous leadership. I was with ten people, all trying to reach this 197 goal.
Garrett Gravesen [00:22:54]:
I was the only American. I was given a number I put in my phone as Afghanistan 911. True story. But it was for an air evacuation team that I gotten from a member of kind of a special ops unit in America. Yeah, I got to be careful with my words, but I knew I was free. I knew I could get out. I knew they would come as an american and take me. But that's not leadership.
Garrett Gravesen [00:23:19]:
You can't leave nine other people behind. That's what I said. I said, now that, you know, I'm here as an american and I need help, but I can't leave the other nine people behind. And they agreed? Yeah. They sent two planes for ten people and got all of us out.
Lindsey Epperly [00:23:36]:
The contact you had actually still agreed.
Garrett Gravesen [00:23:39]:
To do it for all ten of us. And then, how great is this? We got back from Bamyan to Kabul, got out of the country to Pakistan. All ten of those people, they were happy. I was happy. I was happy to be able to get us there and whatever courageous leadership that meant. But all those people, all ten of them, a year later, when I celebrated 197 and stepped into my very last country with all my friends and family and my mom, who came, all ten of those flew in to San Marino and then later Italy to come celebrate as a thank you for what happened in Afghanistan. So, you just never know how these stories and these people that you interact with will come back later in life, but some interesting stories along the way, for sure.
Lindsey Epperly [00:24:24]:
You. Absolutely. And, you know, one question I had even kind of written down from remembering following along on your travels during this time, and maybe Afghanistan tops it, but I just vividly remember. My question was going to know, at what point along the way did you experience burnout when it came to trying to reach this goal? And then my follow up question was going to be, and why was it in Yemen when you were almost kidnapped? So, I am curious, because the Afghanistan story sounds like it might top the Yemen story, but I just. We. Garrett and I met through these mastermind groups that we do in Atlanta, and we have a great group of friends that meet together and talk about our businesses. And I just remember when you shared that you were about to go on this next adventure, it was like, well, I sure hope he comes back. I mean, we like Garrett.
Lindsey Epperly [00:25:08]:
We hope he doesn't get kidnapped in Yemen, which is very likely for a blonde haired, blue eyed american tourist. So, I'm just curious. Tell us more about, like, were there any points where you thought, oh, gosh, I just should not keep going on this. I'm burning out for more than just my own sake of trying to reach the goal, but I'm burning out because this is more than just courage. This is safety question.
Garrett Gravesen [00:25:30]:
Sure. Yeah. So Yemen is probably the closest that I'll tell you a fun story about the Trevi fountain in Italy. Yeah. So Yemen is the one country. It's a lawless nation. We have no embassy. So once you're in, you're on your own.
Garrett Gravesen [00:25:43]:
You've got to get yourself out. Well, 197 is 197. You've got to go to all of them. And I'm not one to step across the border, because I don't think that counts. So we decided to spend five full days in Yemen. Okay. And so we went to Sana, which is kind of like five and a half hour drive into the main part of Yemen. And I went with two other friends.
Garrett Gravesen [00:26:04]:
Both were trying to reach 197. One was the youngest Spaniard to ever do it, and my other friend was the former Falcons mascot. He's hilarious. My other friend is a professional travel. Exactly. But they both have dark hair, kind of darker complexion, brown eyes, and I'm blonde hair, blue eyes. Right. So you can dress in local garb, you can try to cover yourself, but at a checkpoint, you still have blue eyes, which is an immediate red flag.
Garrett Gravesen [00:26:33]:
And so I was really nervous. Like, very nervous, even with sunglasses on. We tried that through a few checkpoints. We're like, this just gets really dangerous. But when I really wanted to quit was, if you look at the continent of Africa, there's 54 countries, split it in half. 27. 27. 27 on eastern Africa.
Garrett Gravesen [00:26:53]:
Pretty safe. You can get through. It's western Africa, middle Africa, Boko Haram. Like, a lot of scary, crazy things going on there. And I was like, I just can't just power through these. Like, it's just so hard, so intense. It's just so overwhelming that you. Do you want to quit? It breaks you.
Garrett Gravesen [00:27:14]:
And I was like, I've got to figure out a way to keep up the courage and to kind of refuel myself. And it was funny. If you look at any airline routes, the one city that flies in and out of most of central West Africa is Rome, Italy. And the flights are actually insanely cheap. I'm talking like, $100 flights, and I'm like, well, for the cost of an extra hotel night in one of these crazy countries in western Africa, which charge you through the roof because there's no hotels, you can take a quick flight back to Rome, and I'm like, you're telling me spaghetti, pasta, and I can throw another penny in the Trevi fountain. Wishing myself good luck for the next few journeys. I have probably, Lindsay, been back and forth. Rome to Ivory Coast, Rome to Togo, Rome to Benin, Rome to Sierra Leone, Rome.
Garrett Gravesen [00:28:04]:
And I'm like, for $100, it's worth it. I've probably thrown more pennies in the Trevi fountain. Wishing a little bit more good luck on this route than any other place across 27 countries in West Africa because it was actually affordable. And I just really believe that luck needs to be on your side. So for all those people that go to Italy, please throw a penny over your left shoulder into the Trevi fountain, because at least got me through a lot of the crazy countries and at least made me believe that I could keep going and do it.
Lindsey Epperly [00:28:32]:
I love it so much. I know. It's funny because our group of friends has asked me before, do you ever help Garrett with his, know, he travels so much? And I'm like, have you seen the way that Garrett travels? This is not exactly how Jetset world travel is planning trips these days. So I appreciate all of the tips. Now, anytime I'm going to the Ivory coast, I'll know route through.
Garrett Gravesen [00:28:49]:
Exactly.
Lindsey Epperly [00:28:51]:
So we talk a lot on this podcast about imposter syndrome, and I am curious, as you're setting out these giant, some might even say outlandish goals of what you want to achieve, do you ever have those moments where you go, like, who am I to do? Why me? Does that ever manifest for you? Or is this just, and is that where courage comes in? Maybe.
Garrett Gravesen [00:29:12]:
Yeah, courage comes in there. But I mean, think about, I've never had a quote unquote real job, so I came back from Africa. I speak at a graduation, and I start a new charity at the age of 21 on a Monday. Okay.
Lindsey Epperly [00:29:28]:
With Vince Dooley.
Garrett Gravesen [00:29:29]:
Back with Vince Dooley.
Lindsey Epperly [00:29:30]:
Okay.
Garrett Gravesen [00:29:30]:
So that definitely skyrocketed. The opportunity for success I run that handed over to someone much smarter than myself who's an expert in the HIV Aid space, Harvard educated, she still is the executive director today. I moved on to the board, and then I said, well, I love travel and I love charity. What if we could bring people back and do charitable work in Africa? The Peace Corps wasn't happy with it, but I was like, what would a peace corps for the 21st century look like if you didn't have to give two years, but you could give a few months in the summer? So we created kind of a study abroad with a servant leadership focus, and then I ran that, and then after doing it nonprofit for so long in travel, the opportunity with Chick fil a came along and then started. So I have co founded three companies. I always think you need someone in your corner with you. I've never done it myself. I've always had a co founder.
Garrett Gravesen [00:30:21]:
So ideally, a co founder kind of balances your strengths and weaknesses, but believes in the same things that you do. But my impostor syndrome, now, as I'm speaking to corporate audiences, I'm like, who am I to speak about these things? Because I've never sat in a corporate job.
Lindsey Epperly [00:30:40]:
Right? Easy for you to say, because you haven't had to sit in a situation where you have a clock in, clock out, nine to five type of job that makes so much sense, 100%.
Garrett Gravesen [00:30:50]:
And so the joke that I make is I basically did reverse retirement. And everyone laughs. And I said, by reverse retirement, I wrote a book, started a charity, and went to every country in the world, which is what most people want to do when they retire. They want to write a book, they want to give back, and they want to travel. I'm like, but let me give you the lessons that I can pull forward that I've already seen of how to do it, why it matters, and why you need a bigger why when you do come to the end of your official career or you're thinking about what truly matters with friends, family, when you're trying to decide what you really want with your life. Because a lot of things that we think we want, there's some good and some bad with it. But at the end of the day, it starts with a bigger why. And I think we all have this impostor syndrome, this fear of failure.
Garrett Gravesen [00:31:41]:
But for me, it's the fear of regret that I think really anchors me. Is that your why people have that? Yeah. And so there was the famous, not even a study, but it was put out, the five regrets of the dying. And so if you've ever been to Bali, I always know the gates of heaven, that amazing photo that you see all over social media. And every time, it makes me stop and think about the five regrets of the dying. And the number one regret of the dying is, I wish I had the courage to live a life true to myself, not what others expected of me. Another regret of the dying. I wish I had the courage to tell others what I really felt right.
Garrett Gravesen [00:32:25]:
And so if we can then pull that back into our present moment and I can share that with people, I saw it firsthand with my father. I don't want it to happen to anyone in this crowd or listening to this podcast. I want us to really take advantage of the time we have now to say yes more often to the things that really light us up and have the courage to be who we truly are inside and outside of the office. If you're running a company, lean into people's personal dreams. And their professional goals. Because I think we live in a world where everything is so combined. Our work life balance doesn't exist. We take home our computers, we sleep with our iPhones next to our beds.
Garrett Gravesen [00:33:00]:
And it doesn't have to be that way. We can be the leaders that leaders were always looking for. And your podcast titles. Who made you the boss? I hope if I'm the boss, I'm the type of leader that trades eye for you, wants to embrace your personal goals and wants you to go live a beautiful life.
Lindsey Epperly [00:33:15]:
Yes. And the beauty of that, too, and the tongue in cheek of this whole thing is anyone is a leader. Everyone is a leader. Every single individual, whether they run a company or they run their household, or they simply run their own lives and day and self, you have the opportunity to do that and to make that choice of replace I for you. Because even when you point back to the very foundation of heroes, you were just yourself at that point going out on stage, right? You weren't doing it in charge of an organization. It eventually led to that, kind of accidentally, but you were able to embrace that as a single individual.
Garrett Gravesen [00:33:49]:
Absolutely.
Lindsey Epperly [00:33:50]:
We talk some on the show, too, about my concept, and I think you and I have touched base on this before, just offline of the idea of the monsters that save us, this idea that there are these big scary fears that we have hiding in our closet. And when they actually come to fruition, you're like, oh, this is it. This is where I get leveled. This will destroy me. And on the other side of that, you actually come back to see, oh, that's really what brought me to where I am, who I am supposed to be. That redeemed me in so many ways that I never saw possible. And I would love to hear from you. Just, you've got so many amazing tales.
Lindsey Epperly [00:34:23]:
So many amazing stories. What is one that when you hear that term kind of sits with you to say, oh, this was the thing I thought was going to destroy me but actually made me who I am.
Garrett Gravesen [00:34:33]:
Yeah. For me, I think the Hong Kong thing saved know, watching a boss early miss his wife's anniversary and four year old daughter's birthday, I don't want to miss know. I think not going down that career path saved me. I think taking my dad to know gave me a memory I can always hold onto and cherish, hopefully inspire other people. But it took the courage to come off of radiation and chemo and say that quality of life care matters more than the quality matters sometimes the quantity of the time that we have. And I think that I've been put in these situations where now I can say, you know what? Life's always going to throw us a curveball. But those curveballs, I think, are kind of God's way, or God winks of pointing us back in our true. Like, who would have ever guessed that a little boy in a red baggy shirt in the middle of Nairobi, Kenya, would completely change the trajectory? From one question, everyone says they'll be back.
Garrett Gravesen [00:35:39]:
Will you really come back and see us? Which spread to 30,000 people in an audience, which spread to the last 20 years of inspiring people to be heroes and mentors for kids with HIV and AIDS. From one boy, one question, one time. And I talked about this. I think you'll love this. This may really highlight it is it really made me value and see the uniqueness in others. And so I got a chance to do the executive leadership development program at Harvard Business School. So eventually, 20 years later, after getting my heart broken at Harvard, I end up back at Harvard for business school, which was amazing and because I love speaking and probably wasn't that intimidating because I'm like, oh, I'm going to go back and still consult for a chicken company in Atlanta. And they're like, okay, you're a non threat to all of us.
Garrett Gravesen [00:36:27]:
We like you, chickfila. Thank you so much. Doesn't make sense to the Harvard folks, but it makes a heck of a lot of sense to us here in the south because we love chick fil A and great customer service. But they asked me at Harvard Business School, they asked me to be the graduation speaker for our class. So I'm like, sweet. Did it at Uga, do it at Harvard Business School. But it's a really intimidating audience, right? Because everyone there is wealthier than I am, comes from a family that's much more well to do than I did. And I said, but at the end of the day, people are people.
Garrett Gravesen [00:36:58]:
And I gave this speech. I gave a parable, and then I related it to everyone in the audience. I said, there was once a teacher who gave a test, and it was a test of the smartest students in the class. And all the students obviously knew all the answers to all the questions. Again, they were the smartest except for the very last question. And the first student who got to it put down his pencil, raised his hand and said, professor, is this last question actually going to count? And the professor said, I need everyone to put down their pencil right now. It absolutely does. And the question was this, what is the name of the person who cleans our classroom? Not one student can answer it.
Garrett Gravesen [00:37:39]:
Not one. And I said, for us here at Harvard, his name's Vladimir. He cleans the blackboards. He's a cool guy with a great sense of humor. It's like, her name is May. She works in the kitchen. And she'll give you extra honey nut cheerios in the morning if you ask nicely. Trust me, I know.
Garrett Gravesen [00:37:58]:
His name's Kenny. He restocks all the refrigerators in each of these rooms. He's been doing it here at Harvard for 20 years. Said, never let the fact you went to Harvard Business School become so great that you miss out on all the people who make life grand. I was like, that's what's truly important in life, and it's our job to get to know each and every single one of them.
Lindsey Epperly [00:38:23]:
I feel like the through line for you when it comes to courage is always about the people. The courageous thing is actually to take that extra moment, whether it's seeing your employees for who they are, meeting them where they are, finding out their goals of becoming that next Gordon ramsay and supporting those, or just seeing the people around you. I mean, as you travel to the most unbelievable of places, your stories are always around the people.
Garrett Gravesen [00:38:48]:
Absolutely. And I think that's, to me, what great leaders do. I give a talk about courageous leadership. Courageous leadership starts and ends with getting to know your people and putting yourself right there alongside them and truly embracing their personal goals, along with the professional goals of the business. And how do we blend those two so that they're happy, they're excited, and they want to come work with someone that believes in who they are.
Lindsey Epperly [00:39:15]:
Beautiful. I think that is a great note to end on. I've learned so much that I didn't know about you from knowing you for so long. And I know that people listening will want to hear even more. You've got a book chock full of these stories, so obviously they need to pick up 10 seconds of insane courage, and we'll link to that in the show notes. But I'm curious if there's anything else you're working on that everyone should be keeping an eye out for or ways to follow along? How should people stay in all thing Garrett world?
Garrett Gravesen [00:39:43]:
Yes, I post a lot of free content, all about the insights from traveling to all 197 countries on LinkedIn. So it's just Garrett Graveson on LinkedIn. If you want fun tuxedo stories from all around the world and fun, exciting photos, I'm gg worldwide on Instagram. But I just really believe courage is what we all need. Courage is something we can all do. And I believe courage happens in those small moments. If you can just take the first step and have those 10 seconds of insane courage, that's my message to the world, and I hope everyone takes advantage of it.
Lindsey Epperly [00:40:15]:
I love it. Thank you so much, Garrett, for inspiring us with courage and inspiring us that if ever we wind up in a place like Antarctica with nothing but a tuxedo, we, too, can survive, because you have done it before us. So thank you.
Garrett Gravesen [00:40:26]:
Thank you so much. Bye.