Episode 21 / Mayra Richards
From Loss to Leadership: Navigating Grief and Business
This episode is for you if you’ve ever wondered:
The profound impact of grief and personal loss on our professional life.
The significance of honoring loved ones through meaningful actions and choices.
How our need for freedom and independence can stem from our family history.
Lindsey’s personal journey to becoming an entrepreneur
A therapist’s take on handling control freak tendencies by identifying when we’re striving.
About MAYRA
Mayra Richards is the accomplished founder of Remain Connected Counseling. She brings a wealth of faith-based counseling expertise and serves as a prominent small business owner in the vibrant Atlanta community. She has been a guest on the FaithTalk Atlanta Podcast, The Kevin & Taylor Show on The Fish 104.7, and Genuine Life Recovery Podcast. Her unique approach to counseling, motherhood, and experience as a local influencer offer a distinct perspective that is relatable and insightful. Furthermore, Mayra's experience as a Chick-Fil-A Care Coach and panel speaker for Smyrna business events uniquely equips her to address and inspire large audiences.
“So much is out of our hands, but we can control the way we show up. We can control how we decide to hold on to hope in spite of outcomes and in spite of circumstances. And so taking those things that we perceive as negative, taking those obstacles and figuring out where is their opportunity, or at least optimism somewhere in them, it's not painting a silver lining. There is trauma. There is grief. There's nothing we can say that makes that better. But are there things that we can do to help other people because of it?”
LINDSEY EPPERLY
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Lindsey Epperly [00:00:02]:
Hey, listeners. So today we have something a little bit different, and I am really excited about this because my good friend Myra Richards, who was actually my roommate in college, had approached me after listening to a few of the episodes and said, I have a lot of questions. I have a lot of questions for you about your story, your journey, about some of the teachings that you're coming out with. And I want to ask you those questions. And I thought, well, if Myra has questions, maybe fellow listeners have those questions, too. Uh, so we're letting Myra come on and interview me today. But the benefit is that Myra is a literal therapist. So, Myra, please come help us solve all the problems.
Lindsey Epperly [00:00:40]:
I don't think it's just going to be you asking me questions. They're going to have a lot of questions for you, too, maybe.
mayra robinson [00:00:45]:
But I can redirect. Very perfect, because I'm a counselor, so.
Lindsey Epperly [00:00:51]:
I could just be, like, on that hat.
mayra robinson [00:00:53]:
Yeah. Thanks for letting me do this.
Lindsey Epperly [00:00:56]:
Yeah, gosh, of course. I love the idea. I really appreciate your thoughtfulness around it. And you're now a podcaster, so it's always fun to connect with other people in the industry and in the community, but just our background and, you know, gets to feel like talking to a friend.
mayra robinson [00:01:12]:
Do you remember how we met? Probably. Wesley, is that true?
Lindsey Epperly [00:01:16]:
Probably. I truly don't remember much before the year 2020 at this point.
mayra robinson [00:01:20]:
That's fair. That's totally fair. Yeah, I'd love to. You know, your journey of how it all came about, who I knew you to be, who I knew you to be now, it was just pretty impressive. And I want to learn, so that's why I was like, I have so many questions. I just want to know, and I want to learn, and I'm excited, so.
Lindsey Epperly [00:01:42]:
Well, I am, too. Thanks for coming up with us. Feel free to ask away.
mayra robinson [00:01:45]:
Okay. So I know your family. I know your dad owns epperly tires.
Lindsey Epperly [00:01:52]:
From what year to what year, I don't even remember. No, wait. He actually launched his tire company. It wasn't Eperley Tire at the time, the year that I was born. So he quit his job and started a company in 1989.
mayra robinson [00:02:05]:
Okay. Wow. Yeah. So tell us a little bit about how that impacted you grow with Napoleon. Having a dad as an entrepreneur showing you that. And also, I had that thought, too, of, like, having a mom who studied at home. Like, how did you see her support him?
Lindsey Epperly [00:02:20]:
Yeah, those are good questions. So having a dad as an entrepreneur gave me the visibility of the career path to where I really didn't know any different. And even though my mom was stay at home, she was an entrepreneur, as well, and that she sold cakes out of the house, she would decorate these amazing birthday cakes. So I got to see both parents really pursuing an alternate lifestyle versus, like, a traditional job. What was so impactful about my dad is that he was very transparent with my family. So I'm an only child, and family was extremely important. We would have dinner together every single night, and many of those nights, dad would bring home conversations that had happened in his business. So everything from, you know, the decision to he had a partner at one point, the decision to split ways with a partner and rebrand, the decision to ultimately sell the company, and everything in between.
Lindsey Epperly [00:03:11]:
Right. Like, when there's a lawsuit or when there's an employee issue, like, everything was just very above board. And I call it my dinner time MBA because I didn't actually get an MBA. But I learned so much from my dad teaching me over the years, and then my mom staying at home, I always knew that I had kind of more the drive to. I wanted to work, I wanted to pursue entrepreneurship, but I at least got to see my mom still making that path work for her. And like I said, she made cakes out of the house. So I got to see two people who very intentionally chose the lifestyles that they wanted and they needed, and that showed me that it was possible to do the same.
mayra robinson [00:03:50]:
That's amazing. Who do you think you get your independence from? You talk. You talk a couple of times. You tend to say, I'm extremely independent, which you are.
Lindsey Epperly [00:03:59]:
Yeah.
mayra robinson [00:03:59]:
What would you say?
Lindsey Epperly [00:04:01]:
So, it's interesting because I think, like, at first blush, the easy answer is my dad. Right? Like, he's always forges on path. He's, like, a big picture thinker, and I am so similar to him. And this would actually, like, cause problems a lot of times growing up with my mom and I, because my. It was like having two versions of David in the house, him and me. And then she would feel very, you know, kind of different. But looking back on it, my mom would always instill lessons of saying, like, hey, I don't ever want to see you relying on a man. I don't ever want to see you relying on someone else.
Lindsey Epperly [00:04:35]:
And she was very intentional about telling me, you know, like, the path that she could envision for me in that way. And so I think some of it was, even though I feel like the nature part of it came from my dad, a lot of the lessons came from my mom.
mayra robinson [00:04:48]:
Okay. We have some similarities. It's interesting. That they would say that.
Lindsey Epperly [00:04:54]:
Right.
mayra robinson [00:04:54]:
Like, your mom would be like, I don't want you to depend on a man.
Lindsey Epperly [00:04:58]:
Yeah.
mayra robinson [00:04:58]:
And she didn't.
Lindsey Epperly [00:04:59]:
And.
mayra robinson [00:05:00]:
But she found so much value in that.
Lindsey Epperly [00:05:02]:
Yeah.
mayra robinson [00:05:03]:
And you don't. Now. You don't. And that's something that you're gonna pass on to your daughters. Exactly. It's good. But full dependence, it's not.
Lindsey Epperly [00:05:11]:
And I think you have to hear that from someone who is very dependent on their partner to know that that's the reality. Right. Because my mom was very dependent on my dad. He was the breadwinner. She stayed at home. And so I know there were times that that probably felt, you know, like, could she make the choices that she wanted to make in life because of that? And they had a good relationship, and it was never, like a. I've never seen, like, a man put his wife on an allowance or anything like that. Right.
Lindsey Epperly [00:05:36]:
Like, I had a very, like, great household when it came to the freedoms there, but I think it was necessary for her to be the one to teach that because I don't know that I would think to say those words to my children because I simply live them. Right. So it was helpful to hear them being said.
mayra robinson [00:05:53]:
Yeah. And to know that your dad couldn't have done what he did because he was. He's pretty successful without her.
Lindsey Epperly [00:06:02]:
Absolutely, absolutely. And it was such a traditional household. Right. When it comes to the man is working and the wife is staying at home raising the kids. But, I mean, there's so much value in that caretaker role. Like, that goes completely underestimated in terms of, like, if you could actually put pen to paper in a literal value. I think I saw someone had done that the other day that it was like, if this paid traditionally, it would be a $200,000 a year gig to be a caretaker. And that era didn't really look at it in that way.
Lindsey Epperly [00:06:35]:
I think our generation is looking at it more of realizing, wow, there is so much value and that type of support, even in a traditional household.
mayra robinson [00:06:46]:
Something that I've enjoyed listening from your podcast of. I can't even remember if it was. Maybe it was somebody that. A woman whose husband kind of does that for her. Like, she's like, I'm able to do all this stuff because he's the one that takes her doctor. He's the one, you know, like, I can grow this company.
Lindsey Epperly [00:07:06]:
Yes.
mayra robinson [00:07:07]:
Because I have his support, and it's so important. That might.
Lindsey Epperly [00:07:11]:
That might have been the episode with Stephanie Nadia Olson. I'll link to it for listeners who haven't heard that one. It was one of my favorites, too. But she built a beautiful company, and it was so interesting to see the way her husband supported her because, and she. And she knew upfront to communicate it. I think that was really important for their relationship is, hi. I am going to be the most determined person you've ever seen at building this, and I'm going to need your support, and here's what it's going to look like.
mayra robinson [00:07:35]:
Yeah. Yeah. So a little bit, if you can think back to college, you know, you talked about how you won that contest at UGA and that encouraged you to move forward. I knew you, I think when we left, our relationship left. You were going to be an actress, if I remember. Well, I mean, you've had a lot of cats. You were like an actor writer. And yes, it's cool to see that now.
mayra robinson [00:08:02]:
You do get to use aspects of that anyway. But tell us a little bit of what drew you to the world of luxury travel.
Lindsey Epperly [00:08:13]:
Yeah. So it's interesting. God, I forgot that there was, like, a big point in my life where I really wanted to act or I really wanted to do something in, like, journalism or, like, you know, in front of a screen or something like that. And you're right, like, full circle now. I am. But, you know, I had this kind of, like, entrepreneurial drive, and I had wandered into a travel agency for a brochure, and I accidentally walked out with a job. So it was not that, like, anything necessarily drew me to it. It was just like that college student.
Lindsey Epperly [00:08:43]:
Yes. Of opportunity. Of course I'll do it. Of course I'll mix Brownie and cookie dough together at midnight because I can. Right? Like, this is what we used to do in college, just all the fun experiments. And so, yes, I'll plan travel. But then I kept seeing, like, the business opportunities. And I will be honest, it was interesting.
Lindsey Epperly [00:09:02]:
There was a point where I was an english major with an emphasis on poetry and a minor in theater and a minor in French. And my dad, I remember the French. My dad was like, what are you going to do with that? Right? Like, reality wise, he was like, are you going to write hallmark cards in French? I was like, well, that sounds lovely, actually.
mayra robinson [00:09:29]:
Can I sell that?
Lindsey Epperly [00:09:30]:
Why are you. But I just had a very practical, pragmatic father who was like, hey, if you want to, like, build something for yourself, I see that potential in you. Like, he would always encourage that entrepreneurial drive. And so when I kind of wandered in this travel agency and I started working in the industry, I started seeing opportunity for building something, and then when I, like, got a hold of that, I just couldn't let it go. So it was like everything in my, like, nature was just marching 1ft in front of the other, which is why I entered into that competition at UGA. It was UGA's next entry, next top entrepreneur, and the winner received funding from angel investors so that, like, they were the judges for these investors. And there were, like, three or four different, you know, rounds of judging and all the levels that we had to go to. And I, like, I walked into that room as, like, the only female, only non business major.
Lindsey Epperly [00:10:20]:
I was just, like, waiting for them to laugh me out of the room. And I just kept advancing in the program, and they actually were so great and that they gave me, they didn't usually place people. There was a winner and then there was everyone else. And they actually announced we would like to create a second place award for my company because, yeah, it was amazing. They were like, we really believe in this, but we don't want to give you money because you can do this without us. And this would just dilute what you're building. And so it was like, everything I needed to hear of. I can keep going.
mayra robinson [00:10:54]:
Yeah. That gift of belief that you have from your dad, that you have from these people, I think that's what made you more brave. I think you've always been brave. You've always done the thing. I don't know, I just. You were just so out there, like, I'm gonna do it. I'm just gonna go for it.
Lindsey Epperly [00:11:13]:
Thanks for saying that. In retrospect, maybe it was bravery. I think a lot of it was just, like, ignorance and not knowing any better. Right? Like, I just. Sometimes it's a superpower to just even underestimate, like, how hard it's going to be. And maybe that's part of it, too. Myra is like, had someone told me, okay, here's all of the challenges you're going to go through as an entrepreneur, you know, as a female founder, all of these things. Like, I don't know that I would have signed up for that, but because I didn't know any better than I, it was just like, sure, why not? I feel this is what's, like, important in my soul, so I'm going to go toward it.
mayra robinson [00:11:47]:
Yeah, I wasn't like that. Not until I got older. Until I got older, I was like, oh, if we fall, we fall. You had that drive when you were younger, and I loved that about you. Like, we'll figure it out, the figure it out part.
Lindsey Epperly [00:12:04]:
And I still say that a lot about almost everything to this day, to the point where it sometimes becomes a point of contention with me and Jeremy. Right? Like, he's just like, very, like, to the book, this is the way things are. And I'm like, no, but what if we came up with a solution that no one's thinking of? Like, what if this is. We'll just figure it out. And there are times where that I wouldn't say comes back to bite me, because almost always we figure it out, and then the times that we don't, it's like, well, at least we tried. Like, at least we explored every avenue. I'm a big fan, and I think this is really important for entrepreneurs of not taking no for an answer. And I don't mean, like, going back and being, like, annoying and saying, you know, kind of Brady or Karen.
Lindsey Epperly [00:12:45]:
Like, I'm not going to take that answer, but more of, if I get a no, I then start thinking about, like, well, what are ways that I could make this a win for, like, all stakeholders? So myself, my company, the person who told me no, their team, like, what are ways that I could actually think of a better solution that could get a yes? Because everyone wins. And that kind of thinking, I think, is what has helped really grow the business.
mayra robinson [00:13:10]:
Wow. So what? So you won. You were believed in. You start believing even more in yourself than what happened.
Lindsey Epperly [00:13:18]:
Yeah. Then I just started seeing, like, the problems that needed to be solved in the industry. So first was a more modern and transparent approach to travel planning. So I started building the company. Next was a more clear cut path to the career. And so I started building a mentorship program. Next was a type of company that could support fellow business people. And so I started building a host agency.
Lindsey Epperly [00:13:44]:
So it was always every kind of evolution of what was upperly travel, what is now jet set world travel is an answer to a problem that I could kind of see in the marketplace.
mayra robinson [00:13:56]:
Do you work? Did you make the company the company that you would have left to work for when you were younger?
Lindsey Epperly [00:14:03]:
Yeah, I think that that was always a drive for sure. Especially, too, because when I first started in the industry, the first company I worked for, I don't remember if you remember this, Myra, because we would have been, like, living together or at least neighbors at the time. The first company I worked for was so questionably ethical. Like, it was so terrible. And the bosses were just not kind humans. Like they were. They would, like, they would talk about people. We would literally get supplier partners in, and then they would leave, and the boss would be like, that woman was such a heifer.
Lindsey Epperly [00:14:36]:
He would use this horribly toxic, insulting language about the suppliers, about my teammates, about people that work for him. I got to see a lot of what I didn't want and then build the company that I would want to work for, for sure.
mayra robinson [00:14:52]:
Yeah, that's. That's your entrepreneur kind of your problem solving. Like, I don't want to stay in this hole forever, so I'm gonna have to create it.
Lindsey Epperly [00:15:02]:
Yeah. 100%. If you. If it doesn't exist, what you're wanting, then you always have the ability to create that.
mayra robinson [00:15:08]:
You have to. Yeah.
Lindsey Epperly [00:15:09]:
That's the figuring it out part, too, I think, is, like, looking out and realizing, oh, well, I can figure it out.
mayra robinson [00:15:16]:
Yeah. So, um, you are young to begin with. You started this business very young. What were the biggest challenges that you faced as a young entrepreneur, and what would you say to anyone in their early twenties who's starting a business, any type of business?
Lindsey Epperly [00:15:36]:
So I do actually think that the youth worked in my favor a lot because of the ignorance. Like I was saying, there was just a lot I didn't know and didn't know to be afraid of. So I almost feel like if I was starting this all over again today, would there be more that I would be hesitant on? I don't know, but I think it's really important. For one, you've pointed this out a couple of times that I had other people who believed in me, and so I got to borrow their confidence, which is huge. I actually interviewed a friend of mine, Dara Brustein, who has this whole philosophy around borrowing confidence, and it's such a beautiful idea that when you don't have it. So if you're in your twenties and you have an idea and you're kind of nervous and you feel all of those insecurities and that imposter syndrome. And, you know, my take on imposter syndrome is that it's actually there because you're doing something good. But if you're feeling that, like, you can surround yourself with other people or mentors, you can find those individuals who believe in you and then kind of borrow that confidence.
Lindsey Epperly [00:16:35]:
So, like, I think maybe that really sped me up a lot. And then there's just that, like, relentless. Like, if you've got that, like, I cannot sleep until I do this type of, like, relentless need in your heart. So I feel that way. I felt that way about entrepreneurship and about building jet set. I feel that way about writing, like, that's why I'm pursuing writing, because I just feel like there are times where I have something, like, buried inside of me that will, if I don't release it, it's going to claw its way out, right? Like, it's going to come out in other ways that are probably not as healthy. So figuring out, like, ways to, like, let that big dog out on a walk versus, like, keeping it pent up and not ever pursuing those dreams is really important.
mayra robinson [00:17:18]:
You're a really good writer.
Lindsey Epperly [00:17:19]:
Thanks.
mayra robinson [00:17:20]:
I can't wait.
Lindsey Epperly [00:17:20]:
Oh, thanks.
mayra robinson [00:17:23]:
I'm so excited.
Lindsey Epperly [00:17:24]:
That's my first love. You know that writing my Hallmark parts in French.
mayra robinson [00:17:29]:
I mean, we were freshmen and you came in and you were like, here's my book. You were fresh in college. Like, interesting. Read my book. Who is this girl?
Lindsey Epperly [00:17:41]:
Yeah, isn't that funny? But I've never like you. It took me 15 years later to actually even begin pursuing the idea of publishing, of actually putting that into the world. So I think you outside looking in are like, oh, this girl is really brave and pursuing business or whatever, but there are still a lot of things that have been incredibly intimidating to me that feel too vulnerable almost. Right. And the older that I get, the more I realize embracing that vulnerability, it makes me a better wife and a better mother and a better leader. So the whole act of putting my writing out there now is, is something that I couldn't do ten years ago.
mayra robinson [00:18:15]:
Yeah, I just went through a book lunch with this author, Simons, and she said, like, hey, putting a book out there, it's like going out there in a bikini, you know, it's like, you get people's opinions and some of them are great and some of them are not. But you have to, like, if it's something worth doing, you have to do it. And, yeah, you're doing, you're like, whether it takes, you could have been like, well, it's been 15 years. Like, I'm not going to do it. Like, my time has passed or whatever. But you aren't. You're saying, like, why not?
Lindsey Epperly [00:18:49]:
Yeah, I think a lot of this parenthood, motherhood helped a lot with this, too. And I know you probably feel this way that you've got two young daughters or. So listeners, Myra and I not only room together and have remained friends for what is this, like 15 years now, but also had two little girls at like the same ages, right? So, like, we both have similar age children, both little girls. But as a, as a mom to girls especially, I think it started becoming really apparent to me that if I don't model what I want them to be able to do with their own hopes and dreams, then they might not know that they can do that. Right. So, like, if my hope and dream is to publish a book, like, I need to walk that path so my daughters can see that it's possible. And the best parenting advice that I've ever heard was the desire to make your ceiling their floor. So, like, that just keeps me constantly raising the ceiling so that they know that the platform that they have to jump off of is so, you know, far up, that they don't have to go through all of that to get there.
Lindsey Epperly [00:19:55]:
I guess. I mean, they're still going to have their challenges and trials, but, sure, I want them to see what they're. They're capable of because they've seen what I have done.
mayra robinson [00:20:03]:
Yeah. And what a gift. That's the gift. You're the thing that you're gonna give them forever.
Lindsey Epperly [00:20:08]:
Yeah.
mayra robinson [00:20:09]:
We can't control much enough Cindy videos.
Lindsey Epperly [00:20:13]:
So.
mayra robinson [00:20:13]:
My girls playing with powder in my house, you know, like, we can't control much. There's nothing much we can control, but we can control what you're doing. It's like, I'm gonna show you that you can.
Lindsey Epperly [00:20:23]:
Yeah. Yeah.
mayra robinson [00:20:25]:
And you can do hard things.
Lindsey Epperly [00:20:27]:
How do you advise people when they're in that, like, major control freak mode, when you just see it, like, written across their forehead and they just don't even realize that yet?
mayra robinson [00:20:38]:
I'm very direct.
Lindsey Epperly [00:20:42]:
What would you say? Like, what? Like, directly, how would you.
mayra robinson [00:20:48]:
I would. I would say, like, hey, you're striving at this point. Like, you're striving to make something happen so bad that you will choke it down and you will kill it.
Lindsey Epperly [00:20:57]:
Yes. Yeah. No, I mean, that's really powerful. Well, I asked that because I think I had to learn because of the things that happened, like, to the business and to my family and to my health, like, all over that course of, like, 18 months. And. And I get asked a lot of times, like, well, how would you change things? I'm like, well, I was taught by life, but, like, it would have been helpful to hear words like that. Right? Like, I can tell that you are striving and you're actually going to be the reason that this, like, stops breathing because you're. You're holding so tightly to it.
mayra robinson [00:21:28]:
Yeah. I had this conversation recently with someone, and they were like, oh, well, aren't you scared that if you get a partner or whatever, and I was like, no, because it's never mine, you know, I come from the background, like, I'm a Christian, and so it's. It's. It's never mine to begin with. It was never mine to begin with. And if I can allow somebody to come in and make it better, why wouldn't I?
Lindsey Epperly [00:21:54]:
Yeah.
mayra robinson [00:21:55]:
It will be what it needs to be, but it won't stop somewhere because of me, you know?
Lindsey Epperly [00:22:01]:
Right. That's a very mature and not control freaky way of looking at it. Did you have to, like, work to get there, or does that come naturally to you? Cause you're. You're wired in a pretty, like. You've always been, like, chiller than me.
mayra robinson [00:22:22]:
I think over time, I think I've just come to so many points in life where I keep striving. I keep striving. I keep striving that now I'm like, I just can't. I just can't. I don't have the capacity. We've both gone through really hard things in life, too. I'm like, emotionally, I don't have the capacity to keep choking something to death.
Lindsey Epperly [00:22:42]:
Yeah.
mayra robinson [00:22:42]:
Nor do I want that to be my legacy or what my girls see, you know?
Lindsey Epperly [00:22:47]:
Yeah. That's beautiful and fair.
mayra robinson [00:22:51]:
You're a woman in this crazy business world, right. What do you think is your biggest challenge, and do you think that we can have it all?
Lindsey Epperly [00:23:06]:
So maybe this keeps going back to, like, the universal theme of this conversation is that I've just always been, like, a little bit oblivious to things. I never let the whole point that I'm a female stop me. And I do think a lot of that was a gift from my dad believing in me. Right. Like, having. And I also have had, like, really fabulous male mentors who have believed in me over the years. So, like, I just never, like, stopped to think, like, well, they're not listening to me because I'm a woman, you know? Like, I just would figure out. So.
Lindsey Epperly [00:23:35]:
So that part never, like, got me down. It is now this transition into motherhood that I think I'm like, oh, oh, I get it. Like, oh, this is where you have to start making choices and prioritizing, because the idea of balance is absolutely a myth, and so there's. Yeah, I don't think we can have it all. I think maybe the hardest thing is recognizing and deferring to what season you're in and then, like, kind of staffing up accordingly. So what I mean by that is, you know, where you and I are both in a season of, like, having littles, like, two kids under the age of four is a lot. And it's also, you need to be there like that, and I want to be there. And so it's staffing the business accordingly to where it doesn't rise and fall on me.
Lindsey Epperly [00:24:25]:
So I've been very intentional about the way that, like, Jeremy have. I even brought up Jeremy on this call. Jeremy, who has, you know, steps into the business and really, like, runs the day to day so that I can lean into motherhood. So I think maybe that is the challenge of knowing, like, when are these seasons starting and stopping? Obviously, the season of motherhood's never stopping, but the season of having littles will eventually evolve, and so just, like, knowing to evolve with it.
mayra robinson [00:24:51]:
Yeah. Yeah. I do think the idea of balance is the myth. I mean, it just, you just can't.
Lindsey Epperly [00:24:57]:
It's.
mayra robinson [00:24:57]:
Somebody called it intentional imbalance, and that's. I think that's what you're talking about like this. For this season, I'm going to put my intentionally. I'm going to imbalance towards my kids. You know, I'm going to put this knowing, like, for the next year, especially when you have a newborn, for the next year, it's going to be about my newborn mostly.
Lindsey Epperly [00:25:19]:
Yeah.
mayra robinson [00:25:19]:
But then after that, it gets easier, and so you're like, well, then I can put more capacity somewhere else. Like, you're intentionally imbalancing yourself.
Lindsey Epperly [00:25:27]:
Yes. And then also giving ourselves permission to, you know, if I have the resources and ability to have someone helping with some of the household items, and then I'm able to be, like, a really present mom and a really present leader because I'm, like, staffing on both sides. I do think that's something that a lot of women, like, don't give themselves permission on. Is this idea that, like, look, just because you're the one folding them up laundry does not make you a better mother? I think it was actually my friend Brittany Turner that said that the other day, and I was interviewing her, and I was like, oh, that's such a. That makes so much sense. You know, what makes you a better mother is being present, not having to do all the household items. So, like, if you can outsource that.
mayra robinson [00:26:11]:
If you're in a season to do.
Lindsey Epperly [00:26:12]:
So and you have the resources, then choose to do so, like, you don't have to be a total martyr for everything that you think a traditional mom should be.
mayra robinson [00:26:21]:
That's so true. I outsource so many things. I need Gavin to listen to this episode, like, but it's like, I can only show, you know, we. If we happen to have a third kid, I'm like, I'm gonna need a full time name. Like, that's just because you have to know your limits and you know what you need. And maybe you're not saving the money that you could put towards the cleaners, you know? But you're. You're present.
Lindsey Epperly [00:26:48]:
Yeah.
mayra robinson [00:26:48]:
You're the wife that you want to be, and you're the mom that you want to me. And that's worth it. That has to be worth it if that's one of your values.
Lindsey Epperly [00:26:55]:
It absolutely does. It's. It's the finding the roles where you are completely irreplaceable and making sure that you are, like, the best version of yourself in those roles. And I think having support is essential.
mayra robinson [00:27:06]:
Yeah. Tell. Talk to me about Jeremy. How'd you meet?
Lindsey Epperly [00:27:09]:
I love him. Okay, so, we met at UGA. So, Myra, Jeremy, and I all went to University of Georgia and go dogs, and Jeremy and I met at a potluck, and we hit it off. But I was dating someone else at the time. He was probably dating someone else at the time. And then we remained friends for six years because we were always dating someone else at the time. And then you just, like, kind of friend zone that person, even though he is, to me, the most attractive man I've ever seen on this planet. And so I was always, like, my cute friend Jeremy, you know, like, there's always something but nothing that you could pursue type of situation.
Lindsey Epperly [00:27:51]:
And then six years later, he leaned over in an Uber on our way home from an event and kissed me, and then we got married.
mayra robinson [00:27:59]:
Less than that. What made you. You go on your podcast by Lindsay Eberley.
Lindsey Epperly [00:28:07]:
Mm hmm.
mayra robinson [00:28:08]:
Now you're married. You have two girls. What led you to keep your maiden name? Just especially for this reason?
Lindsey Epperly [00:28:15]:
This has been a big point of conversation, you know, because, like, I personally took Jeremy's name and, like, personally. So, like, I want my family unit to all be under the same name. That was important to me. That was important to him. I am marrying him. That was, like, I. As progressive, pro feminist as I am, I liked that traditional value. And when I started thinking about what I had built, though, from a professional standpoint, so it's two pieces.
Lindsey Epperly [00:28:42]:
It was what I had already built, and it was what I aspired to build beyond. And that second piece, because I do a lot of speaking, communicating, writing, et cetera. Cause I hope to publish one day. A lot of that comes with more attention. And I really wanted to have a division between my kind of professional Persona and who I'm able to be for my family and to my family.
mayra robinson [00:29:09]:
Does that help you switch hats?
Lindsey Epperly [00:29:13]:
You know, I think that if you were to really think about it, it could and it should. I think that mostly I just get confused and introduce myself.
mayra robinson [00:29:22]:
Most of, you know, you can be like, okay, now, Lindsay. I'm really stunned.
Lindsey Epperly [00:29:26]:
I want to walk every time I check into a hotel because that's where it gets most, like, mixed match. It's because I booked the hotel through, like, a professional partner who knows me as Epperly. But then I'm checking in, like, with my family, and so I never know what name I'm actually booked under a hotel as.
mayra robinson [00:29:44]:
Just say it randomly.
Lindsey Epperly [00:29:45]:
I don't. I'm really, truly, every time I go, I'm always like, okay, try this one. And I feel like they're going to be like, ma'am, you're clearly not the person on the reservation, if you're telling.
mayra robinson [00:29:54]:
Yeah, I was wondering. I asked that question. Cause I was wondering, like, hey, is that part of keeping, you know, us moms, wives, whatever. Everything just gets so mission in our identity of who we are. And it's nice to have, like, this separation of, like, hey, I have the endless personnet, and I would just want to keep it just mine, just, you know, everything else is not ours, especially as moms. I don't remember last time I had a sip of water without somebody asking me for it. And just, I just want to keep this to be my own, you know?
Lindsey Epperly [00:30:21]:
I do think there's probably an aspect of that, like, the identity piece is really, really important. And I didn't realize, too, like, my identity as a mom shifted at the same time as my identity within business shifted, shifted at the same time as, like, you know, so I had always really tied my identity to my career. And so, yeah, this probably is just, like, another facet of that.
mayra robinson [00:30:43]:
Okay, how is it working with him, and how did you all decide, like, hey, let's be crazy.
Lindsey Epperly [00:30:51]:
Again, the reoccurring theme. Let's be young and dumb and not know any different. We did it. He left his job in finance the week that we got married because we had discussed it for so long. The opportunity to come about, um, he had a great job in finance. So it was a. It was a big conversation and one that was not necessarily, uh, like, rah rah by our entire family. You know, everyone was like, are you sure about this? This is a fresh, new relationship, and also, you want to work together? So we were like, yeah, I just.
Lindsey Epperly [00:31:21]:
Jeremy put it really well, one day in one of our, like, hour, we, we over communicate. So we have, like, hours and hours and hours of conversation around every topic. And this one, of course, even more so. And I just remember him putting it one day, he was like, hey, if this has even, like, a 10% chance of succeeding, of giving us the lifestyle that we want because we chose to work together, because of the ultimate decision of freedom and flexibility for our family, for us both being entrepreneurs versus him working for a corporate setting, and so if it has even a 10% chance of succeeding, like, wouldn't we want to take that? Like, wouldn't we? This would be worth trying. Like, we're not going to ruin the marriage because we have, he has a resignation letter typed up on his computer that he can press print on at any time if necessary, hurting the marriage. So we agreed, marriage comes first. This is not going to ruin the marriage. Let's give it a go.
Lindsey Epperly [00:32:12]:
And if needed, I can always go back and get my job in finance. And, of course, we came close to that whenever we were going through the pandemic and doing this together.
mayra robinson [00:32:20]:
But put a piece on that, I think what did, what put a pause on that? I've been like, no, let's wait. Do not just go kill job.
Lindsey Epperly [00:32:29]:
Don't go press the big shiny red button of escape. Yeah.
mayra robinson [00:32:33]:
Especially during the pandemic.
Lindsey Epperly [00:32:34]:
Well, I think it was a lot of times, his level headedness. So he is going looking at our spreadsheet and our run rate every single day and saying, like, this is how long we have without income. This is how long, you know, like, and, like, he's, he's like, we've got a run rate. Like, we have x amount of months. And then government funding would come in, and we have x amount of months because we were using our own personal savings to keep the business alive since we had walked away from the home. And so he had a very logical perspective of, like, look, we can keep trying this. And then it depended on, like, the way the wind was blowing for me, right? Like, I was emotional. I was either pregnant or recently had a baby, depending on the time of.
Lindsey Epperly [00:33:12]:
Of that year you're looking at. And so I was, I was emotional for so many reasons, but also hormonal and also looking for security. You know, as a female, like, I think that's one of the things we crave deeply. And that was the most insecure time, financially and career wise and home and community wise. Like, we just were like nomads in every sense. And so what would press pause, though? Because I was often the one that was like, I'm gonna press the button. Like, I need you to go back and get a job, and I need to just stay at home. And we need to pursue a traditional life.
Lindsey Epperly [00:33:42]:
What would press pause is like, the cooler heads would prevail and say, okay, but if we do that, we're giving up on this dream. Are we ready to give up on the stream? And ultimately, whenever it's posed in that way, it was like, God, no, I think we can do it. I think we can do it. Like, now it's just like a mental game of chicken. And so we just decided to play that game.
mayra robinson [00:34:00]:
Yeah. When you guys decided like, hey, we're not going to buy this house. We're going to continue to invest in the business. How did you block the noise? Because I'm sure not everybody went do that. You know, how do you block those noises from people and what they think?
Lindsey Epperly [00:34:21]:
I don't know that I did. Honestly, Myra, it's a really good question, but I think that I let a lot of that noise in. Ultimately, thankfully, it didn't change the decisions, but it did live in my head very loudly. I actually think. God, it's a really good question because I think that in that time of life, it actually reiterated what kind of partnership Jeremy and I have, which is, we are in this together. We are building this together. And by this, I mean the business and our family. And so it helped me learn to quiet those outside voices and to like.
Lindsey Epperly [00:34:59]:
And especially because then we did start seeing the green shoots, right? Like, then we did have the opportunity to acquire another business. Then we did find a community that we moved to that we love. So, like, we started seeing, like, validation, which then helped me even further, like, insulate, okay, what our gut is saying and the decisions we're making together as a family, this is what I have to protect, no matter what everyone else thinks.
mayra robinson [00:35:21]:
Yeah. Yeah. Because ultimately you create what you want for your family, and nobody knows your family like you do. And so for you to be like, hey, this is what our family needs. It's amazing.
Lindsey Epperly [00:35:35]:
Yeah. I read untamed by Glennon Doyle for the first time during that year. I think I read it like twice that year. But she has a chapter in there called Islands. And it's all about the island that you were creating of your family and when you decide to let the drawbridge down and up. And that was such a beautiful analogy because there were times where we had to take the drawbridge up, right. Where we had to say, like, okay, if this person is bringing fear onto our island, we can't have that. That's not making it a safe environment.
Lindsey Epperly [00:36:06]:
And so how do we, like, kind of protect our. Our own hearts and our own minds during that time?
mayra robinson [00:36:11]:
Yeah, you have to. Sometimes you just have to be like, no. You know, you have to tell those loud voices. It's like, no. Like, I'm not going to listen to you. I'm not. I'm just not. I just can't.
mayra robinson [00:36:24]:
I can't afford it at this moment when I'm already. So to take the next step, to listen to some doubt, I think that.
Lindsey Epperly [00:36:30]:
That'S a really good way of putting it. I can't afford it at this moment, honestly. And you said this earlier when I asked you, like, how would you advise someone that's, like, clinging so tightly to control. Right. Like, you had to get to a point where you said, like, I just don't have the emotional bandwidth to try to control anymore. Like, I think sometimes we have to learn these lessons by just coming to our wits end.
mayra robinson [00:36:48]:
Yeah. Yeah. What is the biggest challenge? Challenges. And working with your husband, how do you set boundaries?
Lindsey Epperly [00:36:58]:
You know, we overcame so many of these through the pandemic by just, like, kind of defining our lanes, by learning how to professionally respect one another. But, like, one of the things that we learned early on was, we are so different at work than we are at home. And so learning to say, all right, work Lindsay and work Jeremy are very different people. They're not quite as in love as home Lindsay and home Jeremy. So, like, realizing, you know, what that tension is that exists. And how do we say, all right, well, I love this person, this human. This is my person. Even though he shows up differently to work than he does at home, how do I respect what he has to say and what his ideas are and what his strengths are? And so it was like, I feel like those are not challenges as much anymore.
Lindsey Epperly [00:37:50]:
And I don't want to sugarcoat it. I don't want to be like, we don't have any challenges anymore. I just mean, we had so many challenges in the beginning that I feel like we were able to iron those out, especially during a time that was not prosperous, which I think is, like, when it's the most telling. Right? Like, success can cover a lot of flaws when you're just, like, up and to the right, but when the rug is pulled out from under you, then you get to see, like, oh, this foundation has a lot of cracks in it. So we got to work on that for 18 months. Without an income while also learning how to parent. And being in a new city with no community, we really had to turn inward and look at one another and realize if we want both the marriage and the partnership to succeed, we have to learn what it means to respect one another and how to maintain our lanes. Those were such big learning lessons.
mayra robinson [00:38:37]:
I love the episode that you had where you talked about him. I think it was about like, you were done. You were like, hey, we have this. I think this is going to be like two minute conversation, 45 2nd conversation. It's going to be great. And then he's like, oh, I allotted 45 minutes to this conversation. That just shows how upset you guys are, you know? And that you guys have had to learn to respect what the other person brings to the table.
Lindsey Epperly [00:39:05]:
Yeah.
mayra robinson [00:39:05]:
Because it's not something I say in our family especially, I'm like, it's not wrong. Right? You're not wrong. You're not. I'm not wrong. You're not right, you're not right. It's like, it's just different.
Lindsey Epperly [00:39:17]:
Yeah. Yeah.
mayra robinson [00:39:18]:
And how different is.
Lindsey Epperly [00:39:20]:
Yeah. And how do we embrace that? And I think that's true of any relationship, regardless of whether you work with your partner or not, which is a very small subset of people.
mayra robinson [00:39:28]:
Yeah. Yes. I would. I don't know that I would do it. Maybe I would do it. I don't know. Did you have like, I, you know, as a counselor. I have like a counselor, I have a mentor, I have a parenting group.
mayra robinson [00:39:41]:
Did you, do you guys have a lot or is it just me?
Lindsey Epperly [00:39:46]:
Yeah, right. No. We have surrounded ourselves with, including another business couple. Like a couple who is working together and married are our closest mentors. So like, I think, yes. You have to get like someone that has a similar lifestyle in order to like, know that it's can work.
mayra robinson [00:40:04]:
Who gets most fiery?
Lindsey Epperly [00:40:07]:
What do you think to that? Yeah, that's an easy one.
mayra robinson [00:40:13]:
That's an easy one.
Lindsey Epperly [00:40:15]:
Jeremy's the most even keeled person, like patience of a saint, to which sometimes, of course, I'm like, can you just react?
mayra robinson [00:40:22]:
Is he like that as a dad?
Lindsey Epperly [00:40:25]:
Yeah, he's like that. That's how he shows up.
mayra robinson [00:40:28]:
Okay. Yeah, that's cool. Yeah.
Lindsey Epperly [00:40:30]:
The only thing I've ever seen the man like, get upset about his traffic.
mayra robinson [00:40:35]:
It's a big deal.
Lindsey Epperly [00:40:36]:
It is.
mayra robinson [00:40:38]:
I'm going to change gears a little bit. I do want to talk about something that is very personal to you, something that you went through fairly recent. I want to say you lost your best friend from childhood, a few years back. And as counselor, I think, like I said, human. I know grief. That's two. One, I want to know how you process that and how that changed you as a business person.
Lindsey Epperly [00:41:15]:
There's so many layers to this. And you warned me that you're going to ask me this question and still even hearing it come out of your mouth is like. It just hits me, you know, like, every time I think about it, because when it is recent, like, this happened in 2019. But two, I don't think that the feelings will ever change. Right. You could ask me this question in 50 years and it would still hit in the same place as, you know, with grief. And what was so interesting about this? So I have a close group of girlfriends. I'm one of, like, four girlfriends and from high school that have kept in touch.
Lindsey Epperly [00:41:51]:
We would see each other regularly and dree. One of our friends in that group had a stroke and passed away in 2019. And I was actually traveling at the time. So it was this super surreal feeling of being in a totally different place. I was on this trip to Dubai and Oman and the Maldives. So, like, a very, very surreal setting. I had never been to. And.
Lindsey Epperly [00:42:18]:
And experiencing grief from across the world, like, that was so jarring because it, like, forced me to be in the present as grief does, but in a. In a destination that my brain was, like, taking in as new almost to the point where it felt like a dream, right? So, like, when I think about this, like, initial gut punch of grief and what happened there, it was just such a complex situation because I almost felt like I could get on the plane and go back home and it would. It wouldn't be real, right. Because nothing else felt real around me. So even just the very start of that grief, like, the processing of it was such a strange encounter. Injury was always one of my biggest fans, closest friends, and to so fun, like, such a light to then live with the knowing. So when I was in Dubai, her family asked me to write her obituary. And that was just, I think my.
Lindsey Epperly [00:43:18]:
That was the moment that everything changed for me because I'm getting asked to use the gift that I have, which is writing. I believe that is my strongest gift out of anything else, and I'm getting to do it to honor my closest friend that we just have suddenly, unexpectedly lost. It was a life cut short, you know, so young and so getting to do that and to then self reflect on, like, what do. What do I learn from this? What would jury want from me? What do I need to be doing to put more of my gift into the world. Like, that was the moment that I decided, like, I've got to pursue writing. Like, I have to move forward. Like, this is. You just never know when is your last day, what this looks like.
Lindsey Epperly [00:43:59]:
And so that started changing the way that I did business, because I wanted to put more of my gift into the business I was building. I wanted to put more of my gift into the world outside of that. And so a lot of the choices that I've made since then have been inspired by, you know, the sudden loss of a best friend.
mayra robinson [00:44:17]:
Yeah. It reprioritizes your life.
Lindsey Epperly [00:44:21]:
Yes. Yeah. And it. And it's so interesting. Like, even talking to you about it right now, I can, like, feel, like, my stomach kind of, like, you know, like, you just. You feel it in your body in so many ways. Actually, I just want to share this with listeners, because it was you that I learned this from when you lost your mom. And I remember checking in on you at one point and saying, like, how are you doing? Because you are.
Lindsey Epperly [00:44:46]:
You yourself are a young mom. You're even younger mom at the time of a little. And I was like, how are you managing this? And you taught me about scheduling grief, and that was so fascinating. Will you tell me, everyone, like, how you approach that?
mayra robinson [00:45:03]:
Yeah, it's been very helpful, as you know. One of the guilt, I don't know, over the years, moms just feel guilty about everything, I think. But I was feeling guilty about Leona because she was so little, and I was, you know, I was mad. I think this kind of losses, a best friend, a mom, it's just so deep. It's like, you're not some. You're not her best friend anymore on this earth. You know, you're not. Not a daughter to her anymore on this earth.
mayra robinson [00:45:38]:
And it's just like a shift, a big shift of identity, a big shift of, like, who the heck am I? And I couldn't keep going. Like, I would wake up and I would do the next thing, but I couldn't keep going as an amendment with my mentor. And she's the one that taught me. She was like, hey, you just need to schedule it. You just need to be like, I have to do life, right? From, like, 09:00 a.m. To 07:00 p.m. I have to do life. But in that moment when Gavin would take Leona up to take a bath, I remember I would just stay downstairs for, like, ten to 15 minutes, and I would just sit there, and I would be like, okay, heart.
mayra robinson [00:46:21]:
Like, what's going on, like, where are you at today? And sometimes that would look like a big puddle, and sometimes that was simply, like, anger or numbness. And sometimes my husband would come down and I was, like, laughing at Instagram reels because I need. I need it to laugh. You know what I mean? Like, I need. So. And I was like, okay, my heart knows. I'm a big proponent of, like, you can talk to your heart. You can talk to your body, and so your heart gets to trust you in that grieving period of, like, you will come to me.
mayra robinson [00:46:56]:
You're not going to ignore me. You're not going to toss me aside. You will come to me. And it's this holy moment that I'm going to have, whether it's five minutes, whether it's ten minutes. And then you wipe your tears away, take a deep breath, and you keep going. Because we have to.
Lindsey Epperly [00:47:13]:
Yeah. God. But you're. You're right in that it causes such a shift because it's such a. Like, I don't think there's a more clarifying or present inducing experience that is greater than grief. Right. That, like, you are so fully brought to that moment and you feel all of the feelings in your body, like, everything that you're talking about. I've never known to talk about it as, like, a communication with the heart, but that, I think, hits the nail on the head as to, like, what's happening in your body during that time.
mayra robinson [00:47:48]:
Yeah, I think so. I don't think. I think that it gets worse and worse when you don't.
Lindsey Epperly [00:47:56]:
Yeah, yeah.
mayra robinson [00:47:57]:
When you start to, like, chuck through it, you know, chuck through it. And then it's when, like, people come into my office five years later, and it's like, well, I never cried about this. I'm like, well, now we're going to have to sit in, like, most of our sessions for you to release that pain, because it's such great pain. And the only way, the only thing that we have to honor the people that we love when they're gone, the only thing we have is our tears. We can do nothing else for them except to bring our tears. There's the offering of how much we love them.
Lindsey Epperly [00:48:28]:
Yeah.
mayra robinson [00:48:29]:
Yeah.
Lindsey Epperly [00:48:30]:
It's interesting that you thought to ask that question in the context of, like, what has that done in my business or to, like me as a business person? Because, like, we try to separate those two things so incredibly much like, this personal grief and loss over here has nothing to do with this, that I'm building over here, but that could not be further from the truth, right? Like, we. We are whole humans and should feel like whole humans or be allowed to feel like whole humans everywhere we're showing up. And so I think about that over the years since 2019, like, the number of times that I've mentioned Jerry, and, like, a company wide call is significant because, like. Like, I think about, like, the anniversary of that passing in November, and I like to remind everyone else to, like, call your best friend today.
mayra robinson [00:49:12]:
You know?
Lindsey Epperly [00:49:12]:
Like, what do we do? Like, let's just use this to your point. Like, what do you have to honor that person? You have your tears. You have the ability to leave a legacy yourself, which I think is what it made an impact on me of. Like, what are you going to do with this life, Lindsay? Like, what would honor jury and the fact that she didn't get to live the rest of hers? Like, what could I do to honor that legacy?
mayra robinson [00:49:39]:
Is there anywhere that you feel her the most?
Lindsey Epperly [00:49:44]:
So, I had this. This experience when I was in on that trip, and, yeah, this is gonna make me cry. So, this experience where we stayed at a place called six senses, Ziggy Bay. And this is one of the hotels that I've always had a hotel crush on because you get there by paragliding. So it's, like, the coolest arrival experience ever. But the day that we were set to arrive to Ziggy Bay was the day that they were taking her off of life support. And so, like, obviously, I. Like, I'm driving through these, like, mountain, like, martian cliffs of this desert in oman, and, like, preparing to go jump off a cliff myself, which I didn't ask enough questions.
Lindsey Epperly [00:50:21]:
I didn't even know what paragliding was. I was just like, sounds cool. And so I'm just, like, beside myself with grief, and I'm like, I can't go jump off a cliff and say we. Like, I can't pretend to be happy right now. I'm talking to Jeremy about it, you know? Like, we're in the car ride. It's like a two hour car ride from Dubai. And I was like, I can't go do this right now. And he was like, well, what would you want for you, like, in this moment, you know, like, knowing what's happening across the world right now.
mayra robinson [00:50:48]:
Yeah.
Lindsey Epperly [00:50:49]:
And I remember, like, just, like, just spending time with that thought, thinking about it. And the answer was, I heard Drew's voice in my head, and she had a nickname for me, which was bird, because she thought I danced like a bony little bird bird. And I heard you were meant to fly bird. And so I was like, you gotta jump off a flipping cliff today in honor of Jerrie. And then the words you were meant to fly are, when I feel most connected with her. And so when I'm doing something that is scary, putting myself out there in some way, I'm pursuing something bigger that I actually felt the call to pursue when asked to write her obituary. I remember the word, you were meant to fly. And that's when I'm most connected.
mayra robinson [00:51:36]:
And that's what you're doing.
Lindsey Epperly [00:51:38]:
Thanks.
mayra robinson [00:51:40]:
You are. You're grabbing that, and it can change you. I think that grief can either make you better or it can make you worse that you decided. And that is the theme that I'm hearing throughout this interview, of, like, you decide to grab the hard things and turn them into something good. You even, you know, that's what you do with imposter syndrome. You're like, I'm gonna grab this thing that is so hard, it's so painful, and turn it into a gift, turn it into a blessing for. For myself, for my kids, for other people.
Lindsey Epperly [00:52:09]:
Yeah. Yeah. I think that's a good note to end on, because I do. I think that the only thing that we are left with is our choice. And you said this earlier, what can we control? So much is out of our hands, but we can control the way we show up. We can control how we decide to hold on to hope in spite of outcomes and in spite of circumstances. And so taking those things that we perceive as negative, taking those obstacles and figuring out where is their opportunity, or at least optimism somewhere in them, it's not painting a silver lining. Like, everything is good.
Lindsey Epperly [00:52:44]:
There is trauma. There is grief. There's nothing we can say that makes that better. But are there things that we can do to help other people because of it?
mayra robinson [00:52:54]:
Yeah. Thank you for doing that.
Lindsey Epperly [00:52:57]:
Yeah. Thanks for the conversation today. This was really meaningful.