Episode 27 / Mary Lemmer
The One Tool You’ve Been Missing in Business: Mary Lemmer’s Improv Tips to Improve Your Entrepreneurial Journey
This episode is for you if you’ve ever wondered:
The powerful impact of the "Yes, And" principle in business and life
How improvisation can help entrepreneurs manage stress and handle unexpected situations
The connections between improv, meditation, and social mindfulness
Strategies for overcoming imposter syndrome by embracing improvisation
How to use improvisation techniques to expand your emotional and strategic range in business
About Mary
Mary Lemmer is a creative impact-driven entrepreneur, consultant, startup advisor, humorist, and global speaker helping leaders and companies innovate, navigate change and thrive in an unpredictable world. She is the founder of Improve, and designs and delivers engaging keynotes, offsites, trainings, and conference sessions. She brings two decades of experience as an entrepreneur, author, humorist, and recovering venture capitalist and startup unicorn director. She gave the TED Talk “How improv can improve your leadership and life” and has spoken at The Social Innovation Summit, TED Women, TechCon, The Positive Business Conference, multiple years at the Agile Alliance conference, among speaking and leading interactive and empowering sessions for hundreds of companies around the world. Connect with Mary at www.marylemmer.com and learn more about Improve at www.chooseimprove.com.
“In improv, one of the principles is you can't make a mistake. There's no right or wrong thing to say. And as a very kind of strategic type of entrepreneur, I was always trying to think of the right thing to say and always trying to do things perfectly. And all of a sudden, I didn't have to worry about that.”
Mary Lemmer
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Lindsey Epperly [00:00:02]:
Hey, listeners, we are super excited to welcome my friend Mary Lemmer today, to whom I do the boss. Welcome, Mary.
Mary Lemmer [00:00:08]:
Thanks for having me. It's great to be here.
Lindsey Epperly [00:00:11]:
Yeah. You and I have had so many fun conversations, and I know that the listeners are going to enjoy this one because I have a lot of questions for you that I've never even asked you in terms of, like, how you do what you do what you do when it comes to improv. So we're going to get to that in a second because of the way that you apply improv to leadership and business, and life is really invaluable. Um, but first, let's start with you and your story. You know, we talk on who made you the boss, about the fact that the entrepreneurs are forging a unique path. And oftentimes, it's not one aha moment. There's just, like, a series of green lights that you step into and what that looks like along the way. So I would love to hear just a little bit about, you know, a couple of the milestones.
Lindsey Epperly [00:00:51]:
As you have become an entrepreneur, you've pursued a really interesting career path and what that's looked like for you.
Mary Lemmer [00:00:56]:
Yeah. Thank you. That's such a big question. And it makes me think of, I'm like, I basically felt you're trying to fall over generally in the right direction. Right. It's like each little step is like, okay, let me see what's behind this door. I got my entrepreneurial start as a teenager. I started a gelato business inspired by my family's italian heritage.
Mary Lemmer [00:01:19]:
And I couldn't get Gelato in Michigan, where I grew up. And the only way, I guess, to bring it there was to start a business. And, of course, I had the support of my family. I didn't even have a driver's license. So it started as a food cart, and now, 20 plus years later, it's still around and exists with some retail stores and makes gelato for catering and all sorts of places. So that was my first foray into being an entrepreneur. And because I was so young, I didn't know what I was doing. And I was kind of figuring out as I went along, and I would experience a lot of stress, like when things didn't go my way or as I planned in particular.
Mary Lemmer [00:02:04]:
There was a day I remember where I went into one of our stores, and the iPad pos was broken, and someone didn't show up for work, and I had to spend my day at the Apple store, which I didn't intend to, and I hadn't been sleeping because I'd been opening the store. And it was just, I had, like, a breaking moment of, like, oh, my gosh, this is a lot. And it was kind of a series of that where I realized I needed to take a break, I needed to do something fun for me. And I signed up for an improv class on a whim. And I remember the first time I stepped into that improv class feeling totally relaxed, which may surprise people that are terrified of improv, because in improv, one of the principles is like, you can't make a mistake. There's no right or wrong thing to say. And as a very kind of strategic type a entrepreneur, I was always trying to think of the right thing to say and always trying to do things perfectly. And all of a sudden, I didn't have to worry about that.
Mary Lemmer [00:03:04]:
So my brain got to relax, my body got to relax, and I just got to be and exist. And that was enough. I was enough. Whatever came out was enough. And that was just, that was it for me. I was like, this is great. This is really helping me. And then I found over time that the practice of improvisation was helping me improvise in my life and work as an entrepreneur, where things, when those unexpected things happened, rather than freak out about them, I could just acknowledge the reality of what was happening and move forward in a pretty grounded way.
Mary Lemmer [00:03:39]:
And that's also a practice. It's not like, oh, I took one improv class, and all of a sudden I was peaceful and able to deal with all sorts of chaos. It, over time, really started to help. And I had also been investing and working in early stage venture capital, and I saw, like, all these other entrepreneurs that were raising money and building fast growing companies, all could stand to benefit from these tools, because improvising is entrepreneurship. Like, we are figuring it out as we go along. So if the tools of improv help performers figure out things with, you know, figure out whatever comes their way and build something from nothing and handle unexpected situations, we can use those same tools to handle unexpected situations, figure out things as we go along as entrepreneurs. So that's when, like, that kind of connection started to happen. And now it's been over ten years that I've been practicing these tools and sharing them with others, and it's been, yeah, transformative for my life as an entrepreneur.
Mary Lemmer [00:04:35]:
And now I've seen others really benefit from it as well.
Lindsey Epperly [00:04:37]:
It's so cool. I love everything about what you just shared, and I wanted you to go into all of those details because I'm so such a fan of the gelato store concept. You know, like, I've got a sweet tooth. And as soon as I found out that you opened a gelato store when you were young, actually, funny side story, my dad always jokes that I became an entrepreneur when I was about five or six, and I would sell him fake ice cream. So I knew when I found that you had done that, I was like, we have the kinship because this young ice cream saleswoman, I guess.
Mary Lemmer [00:05:07]:
Yeah. You really figured it out because you were selling a fake product. I sold a real one that melted.
Lindsey Epperly [00:05:12]:
It was a little snake oil. It is, I guess. I don't know. I don't know if I started as a cut artist or what, but, you know, I was listening to your TED talk the other day, and even just some of the things that you just shared with us about, like, the through line when it comes to improv and our actual lives. And in your TED talk, you use words like unscripted, because life is unscripted. Business is unscripted. And the fact that, like, we never actually know what we're doing or what we're showing up for. Right.
Lindsey Epperly [00:05:38]:
And we talk a lot on this show about imposter syndrome and a large, kind of, like, beat to that drama. You don't know what you're doing. You don't know why you're here. You don't like, who are you? Who made you the boss? Like, that little gremlin in your head. But I feel like you found ways to kind of embrace it and harness it through the tools of improv.
Mary Lemmer [00:05:56]:
Yes. And. Which is a common improv, saying, see what I did there?
Lindsey Epperly [00:06:02]:
I did.
Mary Lemmer [00:06:03]:
Yes. And also, I still struggled with it. Right. Because I. I mean, I was a teenager with a business. I remember going to a conference when I was 17. It was like a venture capital and entrepreneur conference, and I didn't know what venture capital was, other than a family friend was a venture capitalist, and, like, had a really nice life. We'll just say.
Mary Lemmer [00:06:25]:
And so, this can't be that bad. And I remember walking in, and people were, like, really intrigued by me because I was 17. I looked like I was twelve. I was wearing a pink skirt and a sea of black and gray suits. And I was, like, one of five women there. And people were like, whose daughter are you? Why are you here? And I'm like, oh, I'm an entrepreneur. I have a gelato business. And people were kind of like, oh, that's cute.
Mary Lemmer [00:06:48]:
You know, and it's funny because the gelato business still exists while many of those tech companies don't. So there's a whole other kind of humor in that. Amazing. I think part of it was like, I didn't know any better. Like, I didn't, I was at such an age where maybe I didn't, the imposter syndrome didn't come till later, and the improv did help because improvising, you realize no one knows what they're doing. We're all figuring it out as we go along. Right. Someone made up some rules, and then some people decided to follow those rules, but the rules were made up by someone.
Mary Lemmer [00:07:22]:
And so I try to keep that in mind with business and entrepreneurship. Right. It's like there's no, I like to say there's like no wrong way to eat a Reese's. I don't know if anyone, I may be aging myself. Those commercials about there's no wrong way to eat a Reese's. There's really no wrong way to do these things to build a business. There have been some frameworks that have been established, like lean startup and, you know, the, I went to business school and there's tons of kind of recipes to do certain things. But ultimately, we're all kind of figuring out as we go what works, what doesn't work for us in our particular business.
Mary Lemmer [00:07:56]:
And I think that when I embrace that, when I come back to that, it does help dissipate the imposter syndrome. Right. Because you realize the person who doesn't seem like they have imposter syndrome, they're also just figuring out things as they go. Right. And no one has, like a magic wand or a secret code to figuring this stuff out. We're just again stumbling upon stuff. And once we realize that, it's really, it's kind of hard to exist with imposter syndrome in those moments.
Lindsey Epperly [00:08:29]:
Yeah, I love that. Well, and I want you to tell, and listeners, you've got to go check out Mary's TED talk. It's excellent. It has so many views. You have done such a beautiful job with it. But in it, you talk about the principle of yes, and which I caught what you did there because I know your principles, but yes, and tell us about that. How do you apply that? How does that help us in life and in business?
Mary Lemmer [00:08:51]:
Well, the principle of yes and for improv is like acknowledging the reality of the scene and then building on it. Right. So if you and I were in a scene and you're like, hey, we're on an airplane. And I'm like, no, we're not. We're at the zoo. Like, that kills the scene. We're not on the same page, and the scene is about us arguing about where we are. And, like, that's not fun for us.
Mary Lemmer [00:09:12]:
That's not fun for the audience. So, yes. And is this okay? Whatever's been established in the scene, we have to accept we may not love that. I may not love that we're on an airplane. I may, like, have really wanted to be in the zoo. But you said we're in an airplane, so now we're in an airplane, so I have to accept that. And then the. And part of it is building on it.
Mary Lemmer [00:09:31]:
So if you say, oh, we're on an airplane, I could be like, yeah, and we're really starting to hit some turbulence, right? So that we're kind of co creating something together, but it has to start with that acceptance before we can move forward to add something on it. And so applied to life, this is how we can come up with new ideas, right? Because we can't come up with new ideas when we're saying no. We have to acknowledge the reality of what is. And similar with solving problems. If we don't acknowledge there's a problem, we cannot solve it now. Yes. And isn't about agreeing. Right.
Mary Lemmer [00:10:03]:
I think that's, like, a thing that people often are like, oh, well, I don't want to say yes to everything. I can't. I'm not asking you to say yes. You can say yes and then say no. You can be like, oh, thank you for that invite to this party. I won't be able to make it. That's a yes. And that's an acknowledgement of that invitation.
Mary Lemmer [00:10:19]:
And then making a choice. The and part is that making that choice to say no, this isn't going to work for me. So I think it's a powerful two words, because it's really about presence, it's about acceptance, especially when there's things outside of our control, which, as entrepreneurs, we are so close to all the time. Right. There's always something that's not within our control, whether it's a customer's decision about whether to hire us. Maybe there's something in production that, like, goes awry that we couldn't control. A weather event for gelato, like a rain or storm or snow is always something that we can't control but does affect the business. And so acknowledging that reality allows us to solve those problems, it allows us to move forward in a way that is, like, actually productive.
Mary Lemmer [00:11:03]:
Right? Because if you deny that something exists, you can't say and you can't move forward. You're too busy trying to fight reality. Like, fighting reality is a waste of energy.
Lindsey Epperly [00:11:12]:
Totally. Gosh, I think about it when I heard you explain that concept and the whole acknowledgement of reality piece of that, it was such an amazing light bulb moment because I thought back to running a travel agency during a world pandemic and looking out at the landscape of the travel industry. So this is applicable to any industry in a time of crisis. But so many individuals were like hibernating, right? They were going into full blown, like, oh, my God, I'm going to close my door. Shutter the one. And people had to do what they had to do, right? From a mental health standpoint, from a financial standpoint, everyone had their reasons but own. I think some of the reason that we grew is because we quickly said, all right, here's the reality, and we are going to do something about it. Right? Like it was, it was being able to quickly come up with a new game plan.
Lindsey Epperly [00:11:53]:
And of course, like, everyone's word of the year, that year was pivot. But, but this whole. Yes, and piece of that is kind of a way that we can, instead of just looking at the obstacle and wallowing in the fact that we have an obstacle, it's. But how could we turn this obstacle into a reality?
Mary Lemmer [00:12:09]:
Exactly. I mean, that is a great example of. Yes. Ann applied in the world of business and in the industry of travel. Right? Like pandemic, like, can't control it, couldn't.
Lindsey Epperly [00:12:20]:
Maybe have predicted it.
Mary Lemmer [00:12:22]:
And then it's like, okay, you could have spent all that time just fighting it and being angry and like, oh, woe is me. But that wouldn't have led you to anywhere except maybe misery, right? So that acknowledging this is the scene we're in, that's another kind of improvism of play. The scene you're in, be where you are, be in the situation you're in. If you're on that airplane and that improv scene, be on that airplane, explore it, see what's happening. If you're in a situation where it's a global pandemic and you're running a travel agency, like, be in it so you can get through it and, like, solve the problems and innovate. So that's like, and I love that. I know early in meeting you, just hearing that, like, this is classic improvising in business, whether you realized you were improvising or not. And all entrepreneurs, all great entrepreneurs are great improvisers because we have to be.
Lindsey Epperly [00:13:11]:
Yes, yes and yes. And I'm going to call myself out on doing it every time I actually. It's funny you just mentioned playing the scene you're in because that was another note that I wrote to ask you about because I love. So one of our family core values is to be present. And I have found the times that I am, like, most in a spiral and most negative are when I'm not being present, because I'm just being like, ugh, my child woke me up in the middle of the night, and now I have to go help her put her pants on. And now I have to, you know, like, whatever it is that's making you kind of, like, wallow in that moment and. And playing the scene you're in kind of reminded me of meditation and that, like, I've even, like, started adopting this idea of meditation of, you know, those moments where, like, all right, my four year old is almost four year old. She's becoming super independent, and she wants to do all of these motions, right? She wants to put her clothes on, even though it's going to take 20 more minutes than it would if I just helped her.
Lindsey Epperly [00:14:02]:
And so, like, in the moment, I'm now breathing in, breathing out, letting her do her thing. I'm actually, like, turning my eyes, like, letting her do her thing so that I can actually hear and meditate in that moment and say, like, all right, let me make myself be present. I want to be a good mom for her in this moment. And I think about playing the scene you're in as such a similar thing of just, like, grounding ourselves and being present to those around us, and we're in that way lending to them our best abilities in that scene.
Mary Lemmer [00:14:30]:
Absolutely. Improv is a form of, like, social meditation in a way, right. Where. And I do believe that improv as a practice will be, like, the next meditation, like, where meditation was ten years ago. Improv is kind of there now where it's like, some people do it and whatever, but there's more and more research coming out about the physical and mental health benefits of improvising. And that's kind of what happened with meditating. But I think what's unique about improv, and you just nailed this on the head, is like, it's with other people. Right.
Mary Lemmer [00:15:03]:
And not to say you can't meditate with other people. That's possible. Right? But think about those moments where you're in an interpersonal situation and you're like, your example, right? You're with your daughter and playing that scene, being present, noticing yourself coming back to that while also, like, letting that person be in their space and, like, having that interaction, whatever it is, is that presence. Right. And so when there's conflict or a dialogue where someone says something that, like, makes us evokes a certain feeling, noticing that feeling is a yes is an acknowledgement of how something affects us. And then we get to make that choice of how we respond. And that space between improvising helps us practice that space between that ability to be with the feeling and maybe not react. Maybe be more intentional about how we react, be more aware of how we are in that moment, aware of ourself and aware of the other person, aware of the dynamic.
Mary Lemmer [00:16:10]:
So it is a practice in kind of being and being present. And when we can carry that to those interpersonal situations, it's like, yeah, taking kind of. It's a yes and a meditation. It's like, yes. And also recognize how this can impact us in those interpersonal dynamics. We use improv scenes a lot to practice those responses. Right. Because we all have kind of natural nervous system responses to certain situations.
Mary Lemmer [00:16:43]:
Maybe we get nervous when someone gives us feedback or when we have to go into courageous conversation. And so we can practice those specific situations using improv scenes. So we can retrain ourselves and retrain our nervous systems to, instead of being in the fight or flight mode, to be in that, like, calm, centered, grounded mode. And we do that in the kind of safety of an improv scene because the stakes are very low. It's make believe. And when stakes are low, psychological safety is high. So we can practice in that environment. So that when we go to the high stakes environment, the real conversations in our life, our nervous systems, our bodies, our minds, are, like, prepared for that.
Mary Lemmer [00:17:25]:
It's just like athletes. Athletes train. Musicians train. They don't just go on stage or go on the court. They practice so that when they're in the championship game, they can make those free throws. It's like the same thing with these interpersonal situations. Using improv.
Lindsey Epperly [00:17:41]:
That is mind blowing. That is so fascinating to me. I mean, I didn't even like, in just drawing the parallel to meditation, the research that you just brought to the table and social meditation behind it, I mean, I've never thought of it in this way, but it's like it just opened a new door to why this is important to practice. And. And some people are like, look, meditation is just not my thing. And, like, I personally have a monkey brain and have that. I have a really hard time controlling it, which is the whole point. But for those people, maybe improv is a better avenue in order to center themselves and become more present.
Lindsey Epperly [00:18:15]:
And I mean, just in this conversation alone, right. We've talked about it in helping fight imposter syndrome. We've talked about it in helping ground us and become more present. And then the last direction that I want to take this conversation in is, I've heard you mention now a couple of times of, you know, there are no mistakes in improv. And I was, like, in my early thirties before I realized that, like, there's no one right way. I always grew up extremely perfectionist, thinking, like, I've got to make a choice, and there's a lot of pressure. It's always on my shoulders. And I remember marrying my husband, who did not have that same belief.
Lindsey Epperly [00:18:45]:
His belief was like, let's cast a vision, and the how will sort it. He's a very strategic guy, so he's always all about the how, but he's like, when we're at a crossroads, we could go left or we could go right. It doesn't matter. We're going to get there either way because we're working toward the goal. There's no one right way. And I remember when he first kind of taught me this, I was like, that's wrong. There is one right way. It's my way is the right way.
Lindsey Epperly [00:19:06]:
But I want to go to how improv helps those of us who are perfectionists, who believe there was one right way to. That's got to be a freeing feeling to acknowledge that, like, there's actually not. There's no mistake in improv.
Mary Lemmer [00:19:20]:
Yeah. Well, speaking as a recovering perfectionist type a person, that was like, there is, you know, and there's, like, a right way. There's a perfect way to do things. I can say it's completely transformative in terms of a mindset to let go of that. Right. It's very freeing because it takes the pressure off. Right. It takes the weight off the shoulders to.
Mary Lemmer [00:19:44]:
To be a certain way or show up a certain way. There's a lot of forgiveness in it. And I really like and appreciate the way I heard you say your husband describes, like, you're gonna get there regardless whether you go left or right. You've got, like, that North Star. And then if you can, like, let go of the how and just, like, be in the process and trust the process. Right. And I think the practice of improvisation really starts to build that ability because it's building trust with yourself that even if you don't know what to say or how to show up you'll figure it out, right? And I think we can do this in life. Right before the show, we were talking about my trip to Greece.
Mary Lemmer [00:20:30]:
And for most of my trip in Greece, I didn't make an itinerary. I didn't know where I was going to stay, know which island I'd go to. I didn't know which hotel I'd be at. And I just kind of woke up that morning, and I was just trusted that I was going to figure it out. And I remember going to an island, and I went to the first hotel I saw. They had no room, so I went to the next hotel, and it just. That also helps to build that trust of, like, okay, even if I don't know, I know that I can figure it out in that moment, and we can do that without traveling, without an agenda. We can do that with improv.
Mary Lemmer [00:21:05]:
Right? Because I know going into that scene, I don't know what the scene is going to be about. I don't know who my character is going to be. I don't know what emotional reaction I might have. But I know that if I'm present and I accept the reality of whatever is established, I can trust myself that I'll have something to say. However I show up is going to be fine, and that is freedom. That is like letting go of the script, because there is no script. And then you just get to be. You just get to exist.
Mary Lemmer [00:21:37]:
And it truly is that my old, kind of perfectionist type a person will try to come back, and I can feel it. And then I'm like, ooh. You know, it's like, attention, and then it's like, oh, wait. There's no such thing as perfect, so I'm just gonna exist? And that feels so much better. Like, it's just so much more free and light, and I don't know. I like it better.
Lindsey Epperly [00:22:04]:
Well, and what's so funny that you gave this specific example of travel, given that so many of our listeners come from the travel industry, and I myself built an entire business on planning travel. Right? Like, I have often thought about, how can people just go and fly somewhere? They have no idea what their next step is. But the fact that you just laid it out and described it as, like.
Mary Lemmer [00:22:25]:
As an.
Lindsey Epperly [00:22:26]:
As an act of improv. It's an act of meditation. It's an act of, like, well, we'll just figure it out along the way. I have had those little. Sometimes I think they're interested thoughts that are like, you could do that, Lindsey.
Mary Lemmer [00:22:34]:
One day.
Lindsey Epperly [00:22:35]:
You could go travel on your own without any plans. And I'm like, I don't know about that. We'll see. But I do feel like that's the ultimate boss for recovering perfectionist is like, let yourself be free of plans in a destination that you don't even know. I mean, that has to be freeing when you. Because. Because you figured it out.
Mary Lemmer [00:22:51]:
Yeah, it's super easy.
Lindsey Epperly [00:22:53]:
No one had to come rescue you. You figured it out.
Mary Lemmer [00:22:55]:
It's super empowering. And I think that's why improv, for me, as a. At the time that I started taking improv classes and incorporating these principles into my life, I was like, right way perfectionist. Like, such a planner. Like, I. From 06:00 a.m. To 09:00 p.m. My calendar looked like someone threw up on it.
Mary Lemmer [00:23:16]:
Like, and if. So, if something didn't. If someone.
Lindsey Epperly [00:23:19]:
But in a beautiful color coded way. Right?
Mary Lemmer [00:23:20]:
Oh, of course. It was very artistic. I had gel pens, you know, like, it was very planned, and then what would happen is, like, something would go off, and it would, like, kind of the domino effect would happen, and then it just felt like, oh, my gosh, the whole thing has blown up. And I think I went from that extreme to the other extreme. When I was at second city in Chicago, like, training as an improviser, I was like, no plans. You know, I just had class, and I was like nothing else. And I got to see what that was like, and I realized, oh, this is great, too. You know, I still had friends.
Mary Lemmer [00:23:57]:
I still got invited to things. I didn't have to, like, plan everything weeks in advance. And so then it's this kind of, like, happy middle that we can find. And I do think that if anyone wants to improve something, this is also where the kind of principles and practice of improv can help us as humans and entrepreneurs is when we heighten something, right. And heightening is very common in comedy. Right. You take it to the comedic world, you make it really big. You take it to a ten on a scale of one to 1010, then you experience what that's like.
Mary Lemmer [00:24:27]:
So you expand your range. So if you, as an entrepreneur, want to be more courageous, and on a scale of one to ten, you'd rate your courage as a four. We put you in an improv scene where your character has a courageous level of ten. So you get to imagine what that would feel like to be so courageous. You're at a ten. What does it feel like in your body? How do you show up? How do you interact with people? So that way, when you kind of go back to default to your four. You probably end up at a five or six, right? Because now you've expanded your range of what's possible and what you've been able to experience. And for me, when I first stepped into the world of improv, my range was so small because I was controlling so much.
Mary Lemmer [00:25:09]:
I was trying to kind of be in this spot. And when I opened that up, I had more adaptability, right. Because the more tools we have in our toolbox, the more possibilities we have. Because if we're always using a hammer, what happens when we need a screwdriver? What happens when we need an allen wrench or a saw? Like, we need to expand our toolbox. And improvising allows us to do that in a way that doesn't take years and years and years of experience to be able to do.
Lindsey Epperly [00:25:38]:
That is so cool. And that is the note that I want us to end on, because I think it's such a good, tangible takeaway to heighten, to expand. That is such a really. I've never thought of doing that. And this makes me want to go take an improv class now. More than that, it makes me want to work with you, because I know that you already know the ways to apply this straight to business. So if there are listeners out there that want to learn more about the world of Mary Lemmer, about hiring you for future events, and just, like, making sure that they are staying in touch with everything you're putting into the world, what is the best way for them to find you?
Mary Lemmer [00:26:09]:
I'm definitely on LinkedIn. You can find me on LinkedIn at marylemmer and my email is maryooseimproved.com dot. Please send me an email. You can check out chooseimprove.com. Those are the best ways. I'm very findable. Just google my name and if you really search hard, you'll be able to find my most viewed YouTube video from when I got my wisdom teeth out. So there you go.
Mary Lemmer [00:26:33]:
That's where you can find me.
Lindsey Epperly [00:26:34]:
In all of my research on you for this interview, I did not come across that one, so I'll have to search a little harder.
Mary Lemmer [00:26:41]:
Thank goodness. That means that there's been enough new things.
Lindsey Epperly [00:26:43]:
I mean, your Ted talk has quite a few of you. I feel like that might have.
Mary Lemmer [00:26:48]:
I think it has surpassed the wisdom tooth video finally.
Lindsey Epperly [00:26:51]:
No, the wisdom teeth was getting several million. Mary, this conversation was awesome. Thank you so, so much today. Oh, I almost forgot to ask you. My favorite question to ask all of our guests is kind of how we cultivate gratitude. It's what we do around our dinner table every night. The one question we ask one another is, what made you smile today? So I'm curious, what has made you smile today? Oh, my gosh.
Mary Lemmer [00:27:11]:
Well, it's morning for me here, so this has made me smile today. Absolutely. This conversation, getting to reconnect with you. And I also had chocolate from Greece with my breakfast this morning, so that made me smile, too.
Lindsey Epperly [00:27:24]:
Oh, my gosh. I love a good breakfast.
Mary Lemmer [00:27:26]:
Dessert.
Lindsey Epperly [00:27:27]:
Thank you, Mary. This was awesome.
Mary Lemmer [00:27:30]:
Thanks so much.