Episode 14 / Margot Bingham
How Emotional Resilience Leads to Confidence: Overcoming Self-Criticism with Margot Bingham
This episode is for you if you’ve ever wondered:
How Margot connects her creative process as an actress to her musical background and personal experiences.
The way historical roles can educate and have a deep personal influence on the actors portraying them.
Strategies for coping with emotional and creative challenges during uncertain times.
Insights into Margot’s journey from singing aspirations to acting, highlighting the importance of role models and self-discovery.
About Margot Bingham
Margot Bingham is a Singer-Songwriter and Actress born and raised in Pittsburgh, PA. You may have seen her on the mega AMC hit franchise THE WALKING DEAD, with her character 'Maxxine Mercer' in their final two seasons. Under the YELLOWSTONE umbrella, you can find Margot opposite of David Oyelowo in the new Paramount+ series, BASS REEVES. Margot is a seasoned performer, singing the National Anthem for a multitude of sports games; NY Knicks and Pittsburgh Steelers, just to name a few. Her philanthropic attention is even more important to her. She works with children around the world, teaching music for organizations like Orphaned Starfish, helps keep the peace on the board of New York Peace Institute, and looks forward to spreading health and knowledge with Magee, where she was born.
“I realized that if I went with no goal to try to look like someone else, and if my intention was just to be present and be there, maybe I can get stronger. And if I get stronger, where else does that go? And I ended up finding that it really helped my anxiety.”
Margot Bingham
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Lindsey Epperly [00:00:02]:
Yay. Welcome the beautiful Margot Bingham, my friend. I am so excited to have this interview because when you and I connected recently, the conversation that we had was just on fire. And that's when I was like, more people need to hear your philosophy on life and taking control of your life and what to do when life takes control of you, right? So we'll cover all that.
Margot Bingham [00:00:25]:
Ball conversations.
Lindsey Epperly [00:00:27]:
Just the simple things, the things that we light homework. So we talk about on this podcast, who made you the boss? And I always love talking to entertainment industry friends because you have such a natural gift, and I have heard you seeing live, so I know you have a natural gift there and a natural gift with acting that oftentimes means you take control of your own life and destiny at an earlier age because you recognize this gift and you pursue it. So I am curious to hear what your story is, how you came into this industry when you recognized, I've got this gift and this talent, and I want to pursue it, and I'm going to take the reins in that way.
Margot Bingham [00:01:05]:
Well, I think my parents tried to put me into sports, and when I started skipping down basketball courts, they were like, she is different, but I was built like an athlete. So it was really bizarre. My dad really wanted me to play basketball. I kind of wanted to play football. But my mom was like, that's not ladylike. So there were just, like, a lot of contrastive behaviors going on internally and from my family. But in all seriousness, I started singing when I was really young. My voice was super low, and I just thought that that was very cool that I grew up listening to Tony Braxton, and I can sing in the bass choir, and that was kind of a cool thing until my vocal teacher, when I was probably seven or eight, told my mom that she should, and maybe I was actually eight or nine, but she said that I should probably go get my vocal cords checked because it's not normal for this young girl to have such a low voice.
Margot Bingham [00:02:09]:
I ended up having polyps and nodules on my vocal cords. I had to get them surgically removed. I was mute for about a year, and I had to learn how to sing again and speak again. So that really forced me into deciding whether this was going to be an actual thing moving forward, like a possible career or was I really going to give this up? Because if I didn't do all of the training within the year, I just would have been so much further behind just because I really needed to. Once your voice is at such a specific place, your chords are so sensitive, you really have to retrain them almost like they're a child, like it's a baby. I had to really focus and put all of my focus onto retraining and figuring out where I'm going to live in my vocal cords and in my voice and then where I wanted to see that going. So it was an active choice as a child.
Lindsey Epperly [00:03:08]:
Wow. Yeah. You were a child making that choice, eight or nine years old. Do you remember at that point? Are you thinking about your future and this as a dream of yours?
Margot Bingham [00:03:18]:
I probably was. Subconsciously, I think I always really knew I was going to be in this field, in this world. There was nothing that I dreamed of doing more than performing, and I have always been that kid. I didn't know how I was going to get there. I didn't know if it was going to be able to sustain a future for a family or for a living or for myself or. My grandmother always taught me that as a woman, you should be able to make your own money and your own living, and you should be able to stand on your own. She was very adamant about that. And so I just didn't even know that this was a career that was possible beyond Janet Jackson or Tony Braxton.
Margot Bingham [00:04:03]:
I was like, who does this?
Lindsey Epperly [00:04:06]:
And here you are doing it, and I want to dive into full blown Janet Jackson style. Well, you are so multifaceted with singing and with acting, and I found it really interesting when we talked recently about one of your recent roles where you were filling me and you were, like, illuminating that this role was really important to you because it nodded back to your heritage and to your legacy. And so you were stepping into a role that you felt like, oh, this is allowing me to go deeper into my family lineage, too. And that was so fascinating to me. I would love for you to share more.
Margot Bingham [00:04:43]:
I'm trying to think which role that was. I have a feeling that it was probably the bastrees, the new.
Lindsey Epperly [00:04:50]:
Yes.
Margot Bingham [00:04:52]:
So I think the coolest thing, it wasn't necessarily my family history or heritage as much. It was learning about history in a way that I was never taught this in school. So the really cool thing, I was a part of this show called Laman Bass Reeves on Paramount plus, also streaming on CBS as well. And David Oyellowo is our bass. He is our bass Reeves. He's our lead man, which is the story of the first black deputy marshal within us history. And he's known as the Lone Ranger. And I had heard stories about the Lone ranger growing up, but I just never knew how big of a deal that was at the time.
Margot Bingham [00:05:36]:
This is an enslavement that then, after enslavement, left, escaped, survived, and then started working for the US government. That is absolutely wild. And the transition of his life fighting and trying to survive this world. He then lives within a seminal reservation, and he gets to know Creek and gets to know the language and the heritage and works so much within the native american world, an indigenous world, that he is the biggest bridge to the division between the native Americans and the Confederates and the government. So it is just like this unknown story that I had no idea about. And then I get this amazing role of playing a black seminole, which I did not know that a lot of enslaved people at the time when they escaped enslavement, they were also, luckily, they were brought on sometimes, if they were lucky, into reservations to help build and secure and do trade and do anything that they can to help the native american world. So the Native Americans took in black people and people of color and then, in turn, gave them a safe haven to survive. So I didn't know about black Seminoles at all.
Margot Bingham [00:07:02]:
So now I'm playing one, and she is speaking full creek and she is living this world. And because I'm light skinned in real life and I'm a biracial woman, it was interesting because a lot of people mistook me for playing a Seminole. I am not culturally appropriating any indigenous person. Everybody in that cast is so well thought of their production and their crew is so included. But I didn't even know that there were black people that were living within a Seminole reservation. That absolutely blew my mind. That blew my mind.
Lindsey Epperly [00:07:43]:
Right. Well, and just from the very story of the Lone Ranger being a black man, I mean, to your point, these are not the stories we're told. Growing. That is what an incredible opportunity. What does that type of role do for you? Do you have a feeling, like, more resonant with it as a black woman, that this is important work and this is more of what you want to be doing? Was it just kind of luck that that happened, that you got to play that role? What did that look like for you?
Margot Bingham [00:08:11]:
I think it does a few things. Number one, it teaches me as Margot, which is amazing, and I get to move in this world differently based off of the history and knowledge that I learn. I think that education really does change people, and it progresses people, and it leaves more space for an open mind and for more acceptance. So I am always a big advocate of education, but I'm not the person to say that I am stopped of learning. I'm good. I've tapped out. I'm fine. There's so much that I don't know and so much about our country that I just don't know.
Margot Bingham [00:08:51]:
So that's one piece of it. The second piece is, I feel so honored to get to speak on stories that are so untold and so unknown, because there are people that survive this, even if it's lineage, even if it goes back a certain amount of lineage or if it's somebody's great great grandmother. There is somebody that was a descendant of a black Seminole enslaved person, and those voices need to be seen and heard, and I have the honor of getting to be that vessel, which is incredible.
Lindsey Epperly [00:09:33]:
That really is, because what a population that, to your point, you don't even know exists unless probably you have a direct relation to it. So what is your creative process like? Whether it's playing a role of that nature or any role?
Margot Bingham [00:09:47]:
I go for music first because I'm partially half of me as a musician, I'm very split. I'm a perfect example of mix. My mother is german, russian, my father is jamaican, and I am truly a perfect mixed person. I like different styles of music. With my acting, I need the music along with it, so it's like I'm a literal split down the center. So with my acting, I do need it to be led by music. So I go for the soundtrack of the character. I start to think about what she would be listening to, what she be inspired by, what inspires her to lead her to a big situation.
Margot Bingham [00:10:36]:
If she's walking into something really intense, it just depends on how often I am in the episode. I can create soundtrack based off of just a singular episode, which is basically what I did for bass Reeves. But if I'm throughout the whole series, then I just kind of make a general arch of her soundtrack and what really moves her.
Lindsey Epperly [00:11:00]:
That is so cool. I've never heard of that as part of the creative process.
Margot Bingham [00:11:05]:
Yeah, I go for a soundtrack, and then the second one is really weird, but I go for nail.
Lindsey Epperly [00:11:10]:
Wait, for what?
Margot Bingham [00:11:11]:
Nails.
Lindsey Epperly [00:11:12]:
That's what I thought you said. Nails.
Margot Bingham [00:11:14]:
Yeah, like your fingernails.
Lindsey Epperly [00:11:17]:
Okay, you got to tell me more. We have to camp out on this.
Margot Bingham [00:11:21]:
Well, fingernails tell a lot about somebody. It tells a lot about their class. It tells a lot about how they see themselves. It tells a lot about how other people see them, tells a lot about what their daily life is. If somebody has rougher nails, you might be more into yard work, which tells me that maybe you grew up in a blue collar town or you're not afraid to get your hands dirty, which maybe was. Maybe you learned that from your family, your parents, your grandparents. Maybe you were raised that way. When I was in Boardwalk Empire for HBO, my nails were a classic almond shape, 1920s style.
Margot Bingham [00:12:01]:
Because she was a performer, they weren't perfect because she was a black performer. So she didn't always have the money or the resources, but she still needed to be the performer. But for Bath Reeves, my nails were extremely brittle and broken because she is living on the land, and obviously, she's probably a little bit malnutrient and lacking resources in that way and doing the best that she can as well as being a blacksmith. So they were pretty dirty. There was a lot of dirt underneath my fingernails, and they were super brittle. So that's just. My hands are important to me.
Lindsey Epperly [00:12:42]:
Yeah, well, what a grounding operation, too, to get you into your body as you're embodying this character.
Margot Bingham [00:12:49]:
Yeah, I do that, actually, even for myself. Tapes for my auditions that I do from home, even if I just got a manicure because I was going out with girlfriends the night before, and I have an audition the following day, and it's for a detective role or a police officer. I unfortunately take it off because it just doesn't serve my character well.
Lindsey Epperly [00:13:13]:
Wow. Okay. I have a whole new appreciation for your craft. I've never even thought about it down to the fingernails. That's incredible. So taking it back a little bit larger picture perspective of your industry, the life you've led these past few years, especially when you and I first connected, we were able to go very deep very quickly because you were so wonderfully open and vulnerable about the fact that your industry has had two massive back to back hits right between the pandemic and then the strike. And you and I had connected over the conversation about the monsters that save us. Right.
Lindsey Epperly [00:13:46]:
The idea that there are these big, scary things that oftentimes, while you're in the midst of it, feel like they are just leveling you, and then you get to come out on the other side and kind of start seeing that redemption story play out of. I would never have gotten here without that terrible circumstance. And of course, there is trauma in its own right, and there are all these things that we have to go through and process as humans. And you just recently are emerging on the other side of this strike. I remember texting you when it was over of like, is this it? Is this what you've been waiting for? I think you and I walked, like, 24 hours before, and you were like, I don't see an end in sight. Yeah.
Margot Bingham [00:14:18]:
You were one of the first people that texted me, actually. I mean, it was so serendipitous that, honestly, Lindsay, we were just talking about it and just lifted. It was an unreal feeling.
Lindsey Epperly [00:14:31]:
Yes. Tell me more about what it has been like to be in the entertainment industry these past three years.
Margot Bingham [00:14:37]:
Well, I feel like I'm just emerging out of the last four years period, I've been on the grateful, humbled side of things. Where I've been on the lucky side, I've had friends who have lost family members. I've had friends who have lost friends to Covid or sicknesses or whatever. I've lost friends. It has been a trying four years, to say the least, and yet I am definitely sitting at a higher place than most. And I am very well aware that I'm very grateful for that opportunity to be able to be where I am. I have never felt during COVID I really did not feel creatively driven. There was something that was really void for me that just shut down.
Margot Bingham [00:15:45]:
Whether it was my depression, anxiety, it was just sitting in a box in New York City was really hard. It was really hard. Curfew was really hard. Not knowing your neighbors, not being able to talk to people, that was really hard. And I still was really lucky because I was quarantining with a pod, so I was really lucky. And then leaving that and then going into strike was such a different feeling because I felt so overwhelmed creatively, and I had so many ideas and so many inspirations, and I just couldn't do them. So you're on both of these feelings of feeling completely stunted, and you can't grow. You can't move forward.
Margot Bingham [00:16:33]:
On one side, the world shuts down, and I felt completely shut down. And on the other side, my world shuts down, and I felt more driven to move forward, but I just couldn't. So I actually feel like I'm just emerging out of the past four years emotionally, mentally, physically, period, and I have no idea what's on the other side. But for the first time, and from perfectionist to perfectionist, and, yes, I did just call you out, it's like you know me. I think that I am finally ready to release or relinquish the need for control of the complete unknown.
Lindsey Epperly [00:17:17]:
Oh, my God. Mic drop on that. I've been kind of, like, studying the cadence of control and trying to put words around this. What I feel like is a framework of four things that happen, right? There's like our routine and what we're normally used to and how we go about life. And then there's the moment that causes us to relinquish, which is everything you just described. And if we're able to then retrain those bad habits, that's what leads us to the shores of our redemption. But it is such a cycle. And I think it's so easy to get caught in the beginning and the beginning and the beginning and not ever being able to get through that retraining.
Lindsey Epperly [00:17:51]:
But you are such an open mind and beautiful soul when it comes to, like, all right, what lessons does the universe want to teach me here? What lessons do God want to teach me here? What is it that I am meant to receive? That was what I took away from our conversation a few months ago for.
Margot Bingham [00:18:05]:
Saying that it's taken a lot of loss to be able to get here. I feel like, to your point, the cycles continue, continue, and you can only lose so many times until you just wake up one day and you're like, okay, okay, yeah, I hear you. Fine. I stop trying to grapple this unknown and try to suffocate it to death. Figure out the next step. Like, fine, have to throw your hands up in the air and just release, because if you don't, you're going to lose again. And I have lost love. I have lost belongings.
Margot Bingham [00:18:48]:
I have lost house. I have lost. I have lost. But that is also part of life. There's a lot of people that lose. So if you don't learn out of the loss, then you're just never going to learn. And I listened and stopped and learned. I think, no.
Lindsey Epperly [00:19:17]:
You'Re so magnificent in the way you show up. And I recall when we were talking about all of this, too, when we were talking about those lessons that life has for us. Right? It was in the middle of my greatest challenge thus far. And I remember a mentor telling me, actually, in business and in life, what's great about your challenges is kind of like life's an upward trajectory, typically, right? Like it's a line going upward, and then you get caught in the circle of a challenge, and you're going around in the circle. It's like a roller coaster, just a loop in a loop. And then you get off of it. And your reward is that you have a greater challenge moving forward because you've learned that lesson. And I was like, can you not tell me that right now? I don't want to hear about what this is going to teach me so that I can battle bigger things ahead, right? Like, that is just not what the hero wants to hear on the journey.
Margot Bingham [00:20:03]:
Right.
Lindsey Epperly [00:20:04]:
And you've just had those back to back moments. I'm curious, what practices have you picked up along the way? What's helped you stay grounded? What's relieved you during those times of darkness? What does it look like, and why is it Joni and all the things?
Margot Bingham [00:20:22]:
It's Joni. It's my dog. My dog has definitely been my savior, truly, like, honest to God, because I have to show up for her. It forces me to show up for myself. So I highly recommend a dog if you are the type of brain that needs to take care of somebody and exercise. I used to look at exercise. I've struggled with body image my whole life, and I know that I am totally not alone in this conversation whatsoever. So I'm not, like, even dropping bombs here, but especially being in my field, being in my arena, we're constantly looked at and constantly criticized.
Margot Bingham [00:21:09]:
I'm either too thick, too small, too muscular, too manly, not attractive, too boring. I'm all the things and in between. And I used to look at exercise as something that would get me to this type of frame that I wasn't trying to pain. And I was looking at some of these bodies that I wanted so badly. And I was like, well, if I starve myself enough, if I eat a certain way, if I diet enough, if I'm disciplined enough, it kept saying discipline in the way of a behavior that was basically stripping myself of what really was positive about the experience. And my father used to play football. My mom also did bodybuilding as well. This is something that in my personal family life, exercise was definitely not the unknown that was comfortable for me.
Margot Bingham [00:22:06]:
But I always came at it from this angle that if I did it a certain amount, I would get the win, I would get the reward, which is the perfect body, the perfect guy, the perfect thing, the perfect life, all.
Lindsey Epperly [00:22:21]:
The perfectionist to another.
Margot Bingham [00:22:23]:
You don't know me. So I stopped that because I lost all the perfect things. And when everything stopped and silenced, I went back to exercise. And I realized that if I went with no goal to try to look like someone else, and if my intention was just to be present and be there, maybe I can get stronger. And if I get stronger, where else does that go? And I ended up finding that it really helped my anxiety. I realized when I was really shaky and getting ready for a date or getting ready for an event or something like that, and I would get really shaky and really nervous, and I would procrastinate with my time I realized that was just anxiety bottled up. So when you have bottled up anxiety, where does it go? Nowhere. It just basically goes back into your system and it screws up your system.
Margot Bingham [00:23:24]:
So what I would do is I would take those moments, be aware of those moments and feel, oh, margo, you're starting to get shaky. You're starting to get anxious. And I would go for a run and I would kill it in the gym for 50 minutes, like the hardest workout, lift all the weights, do all the things. And then I would come back and I wouldn't be shaky anymore. And exercise became this vessel of necessity for mental health. And now I'm training for a triathlon for the middle of this year and I'm excited. So I am pushing my strength even more. But I have been able to finally harness exercise in the way that I'm not doing it for anybody else, but actually my mind.
Lindsey Epperly [00:24:12]:
That's incredible. And I haven't even thought about that in terms of the feedback that you probably have to endure that you didn't ask for in the role that you were pursuing and what that can do to a mind and a body that already, as women, we just naturally have to work on our confidence anyway. No one just comes out like, I am the woman, but we have to constantly reinforce positivity. And then you're in a world where you're probably not getting a lot of that.
Margot Bingham [00:24:42]:
Yeah, definitely don't get. You get the accolades in different ways, but the real things that you really want to hear or the things that you're not really asking for, definitely you get ripped of those very quickly. So have to really come in with a strength that is. I've always been really good at having a very tough exterior, and that has only served my business. But I have definitely struggled with anxiety and how I see myself, which is, I am my worst critic and most of us are. But when I look in the mirror and even when I close my eyes, if I'm not even looking at my reflection, if I'm feeling my own energy, am I happy with what I feel?
Lindsey Epperly [00:25:38]:
I wonder, too, because a lot of what I have experienced, when it comes to the way that I have tied my self worth to my success, is the question of, does that just mean I need to redefine what success is?
Margot Bingham [00:25:50]:
Yes.
Lindsey Epperly [00:25:52]:
Do you feel like that's maybe been part of this journey for you, especially recently?
Margot Bingham [00:25:55]:
Absolutely. During the pandemic, I felt like I was completely useless when I couldn't go to work. Who was I? I was nobody. I was absolutely nobody. I was barely a good daughter because I couldn't see my parents. I was maybe a good pet parent. Maybe, probably not. I don't think I was an amazing partner, though.
Margot Bingham [00:26:19]:
I tried to be. And I definitely wasn't kind to myself. So if I was failing at all of these other things, and then I also couldn't do the thing that led me for my everyday what am I doing on this earth? How am I giving back? And I know that I am a person of purpose and I need to do things with good intentions and they need to be purposeful for me to be able to get on board. But sometimes you just don't have the opportunity. So what happens then? You have to get in peace with yourself. You have to be at peace with yourself. And I definitely, probably was not at peace with myself for the last full four years. And I'm still a work in progress.
Lindsey Epperly [00:27:09]:
As we will always be. But actually, I feel like it's very helpful to hear from someone like yourself, who, from the outside looking in, right? We see the roles you've accomplished. We see how you show up. You are very polished, very beautiful on stage. You have this amazing confidence to you and on the screen. And so from the outside looking in, if people don't hear individuals like yourself saying those words, they will always compare themselves against a standard that doesn't exist, right. Of like, this woman who's able to show up all glossy and wonderful all the time. It's really powerful that you are able to sit here and admit, not I.
Lindsey Epperly [00:27:44]:
This is real for me, too. I am also a real human behind the screen and behind the stage. And so I appreciate you opening up and being vulnerable in this way.
Margot Bingham [00:27:53]:
Thank you.
Lindsey Epperly [00:27:54]:
Yeah, thank you for who you are. I'm curious. When I was starting this podcast, I had recorded one episode and then I listened to it back and I'm like, well, that's never going to fly. I can't stand the sound of my own voice, so I guess I'm going to have to can it. You are your own worst critic. And I did a lot of research then of why is that? We all hate the sounds of our own voice, right? I learned that it's a whole thing. Like, you hear your voice differently in your head because it's like, reverberating in your skull. Please, science, don't call me out on whether this is accurate.
Lindsey Epperly [00:28:27]:
This has just made sense to me. And I am just so curious. You talk about the struggles and sometimes the impostor syndromes and all the things, but you still have the confidence to get up on that stage, and when I saw you perform, you were singing a song that nodded to the slave era. You're actually, like, passing on a legacy. It gives me chills. Just think about it. You're passing on a legacy through your voice. What gives you that confidence?
Margot Bingham [00:28:54]:
I know I have to do it. I just know I have to do it. I know that I'm good at it.
Lindsey Epperly [00:29:03]:
You are?
Margot Bingham [00:29:04]:
I know that I have to do it. I know that God has given me an opportunity and a talent, and I'm very grateful that I have all the things that I have and the resources that I have, and I've definitely worked hard for it. I have not skimmed any room for no work, as far as that's concerned, but I will continue to work hard for it and try to be the best that I can. But I definitely feel like there are roles that get delivered to me in a way that I was the only one supposed to play them. So I just have to show up fully for the character, try my best to be there and represent her as best as possible. And honestly, the character gives me the confidence to be there. As long as I do the work, I have the confidence to be there, because it's not me anymore, if that makes sense.
Lindsey Epperly [00:30:06]:
Yeah, no, you're the vessel to deliver that.
Margot Bingham [00:30:09]:
Truly.
Lindsey Epperly [00:30:10]:
Wow. That is so interesting. Yeah.
Margot Bingham [00:30:12]:
But I definitely still get nervous, especially before performances. I mean, when you saw me perform that Rihanna Gidden song, it was the song called Julie, and it talks about the slave owner and the enslaved person escaping. And it was probably around the civil war time where the war had ended and she finally had her freedom and she could leave the plantation. And it's from both perspectives, and the slave owner was basically asking for her to stay. And, hey, your family. And the enslaved woman is like, I'll never stay. And she's like, hey, if the soldiers come and the police come, can you hide my gold? And then slaves woman is like, you bought that gold off of the backs of selling my children. No.
Margot Bingham [00:31:05]:
That was a hard moment for me to be able to sing it, and I was shaking the whole song because it's so incredibly powerful, and especially being in a majority of a white room and being the only person of color in the room, it's really hard. It's really hard because I knew that it made everyone very uncomfortable. Our history often does, and that's usually why most people don't talk about it, because it makes people uncomfortable. But the only way to make sure that we don't do it again and repeat, and we can rewrite a bit moving forward is to talk about it. That's the most amazing thing about music, is that it really allows that bridge to be a little bit kinder for you, to be a little bit more open when you might not be able to, but it's still extremely uncomfortable.
Lindsey Epperly [00:32:04]:
This brings tears to my eyes because I have not shared this with you yet because it would be weird to share it with you. So I'm going to share it with you now on a recorded platform. It would not be weird to share it with you. I actually think it's a testimonial to everything you just said and to you getting up that night. So I brought my daughter Mila, who is three and a half, with me, to your performance. You had invited me, and Mila loves anything involving a stage. Her first thing is like, can I get up? Know? And she sees you perform, and she's just. I mean, she's, like, not playing, she's just watching and awestruck.
Lindsey Epperly [00:32:37]:
And then that night, we're doing bedtime, and your name is Margot. And my other daughter's name is Margot. I have baby Margot, as you know, since I met you, like, the day after I found out I was naming her, um, and Mila said she's Margot, too. And I said, yes, they're both named Margot. And she said she has dark skin. Like, Mila noticed that in you versus her baby sister Margot. And it opened up a conversation of yes. And that's what she was singing about on that.
Margot Bingham [00:33:07]:
Yeah.
Lindsey Epperly [00:33:07]:
Was the color of her skin and what that means. And here's why it's important to us as a. Yeah. So you getting up there, I mean, you don't even know the ripple effects. Even though you feel like it's a room uncomfortable, I think it's a room growing and open to learning and being educated, at least as evidenced by my three and a half year old. If that gives us any hope for the future.
Margot Bingham [00:33:26]:
That gives me so much hope for the future, but it will make me cry, because that's beautiful what you did. That's beautiful what you did.
Lindsey Epperly [00:33:38]:
Margot Bingham, you're such an awesome friend and human. Thank you for showing up so genuinely. Wow. What is that hitting with you that.
Margot Bingham [00:33:51]:
You didn't say that? A lot of people, sometimes talking to a child is so hard. You have to be so specific with your words. And I've had a lot of friends say, yes. If someone notices skin color, it's like, but we're all the same. You didn't make that comment, you continued the conversation because being colorblind is part of the problem. Allowing the acknowledgment that we are all different and all still beautiful is the real change.
Lindsey Epperly [00:34:37]:
Absolutely. I'm just proud to know two margots who are so vastly different and so vastly beautiful in their own right. And I thought that was just the most amazing connection that Mila even made that at this age. Right? Like, you're right. Kids do notice.
Margot Bingham [00:34:52]:
Yeah, they do.
Lindsey Epperly [00:34:53]:
Responses we give them are what frame their entire worldview around how we treat one.
Margot Bingham [00:34:58]:
Absolutely. Absolutely. And she's amazing. To have a mom like you.
Lindsey Epperly [00:35:05]:
Are such a dear friend. I am so grateful for you and for this conversation, and we are just so lucky to have it recorded for other people to listen from.
Margot Bingham [00:35:12]:
Thank you for being so open by having a full emotional breakdown, which I was not expecting. Lindsay RB oh, God. Oh, my God.
Lindsey Epperly [00:35:24]:
Okay, so on to happier subjects. We'll wrap up soon, but Margot Bingham did come over and prune my plants. Margot, I regret to inform you my mint plant, who I have fictionally dubbed Mint Eastwood, has passed.
Margot Bingham [00:35:42]:
He passed away.
Lindsey Epperly [00:35:45]:
It's probably my fault. Wait, now, since you're already crying, I just thought I would add one more.
Margot Bingham [00:35:53]:
Okay, just for reference, you do know mint is a weed? It is real hard to kill a weed.
Lindsey Epperly [00:36:04]:
Well, I did it.
Margot Bingham [00:36:06]:
Well done.
Lindsey Epperly [00:36:07]:
I accept the challenge.
Margot Bingham [00:36:12]:
Yes, I definitely showed up at your house, and while we were talking, I was pruning your plants. I just inserted myself and I didn't even ask, like, so rude. It was the first time I showed up at your. I was like, what a beautiful home. Oh, my God, these friends need some water. And what is happening? Like, growing out. We need to cut this away. Crazy.
Margot Bingham [00:36:37]:
Thanks for not being like, hey, can you leave?
Lindsey Epperly [00:36:40]:
No. Honestly, since we've talked so much about self confidence, it was such a badass move. Am I going to have to edit my own self since I just told you earlier that we don't use explicitives on this podcast? It was such a great move of like, not only do I belong here, I'm going to prune your plants. It was phenomenal. It was when I was like, me and this girl, we're going to be friends.
Margot Bingham [00:37:04]:
That's awful and awesome.
Lindsey Epperly [00:37:07]:
Great.
Margot Bingham [00:37:09]:
Have accepted me. That's awful for me because I've inserted myself. But yeah, I have not always had a green thumb. Sometimes I still think that I fail. Maybe I failed your mint Eastwood and didn't set, but my grandfather, and he is still with us, which is amazing. My grandparents on my father's side. He is the best gardener and person, and he really helped me through that was something that we really connected with through the pandemic. And he taught me about soil and different plants that will grow together and that they like each other's company.
Margot Bingham [00:37:55]:
He brought me back to a plant 101, and I got really into germinating and really into creating my own herbs and doing science experiments out of my New York apartment. It was full nerd. Full nerd.
Lindsey Epperly [00:38:10]:
Kept you going, hey, that's a little bit of happy in a rough time.
Margot Bingham [00:38:13]:
A lot of bit of happy. And actually brought me the most happiness, way more than the wine did.
Lindsey Epperly [00:38:20]:
It was a lot, which, you know, it gave you a run for your money. That is so phenomenal. Margot, where can people follow you? Because obviously everyone will have fallen in love with you based off of this. Like, what's the best way for them to keep up with your work and to support what you're doing, too.
Margot Bingham [00:38:36]:
Thank you. You can follow me on Instagram. I'm not amazing at social media, just FYI. I'd like to be really present in my life, but I do post every so often, and when I do, it's usually about a project or it's intentional and hopefully inspiring. So you could follow me at Marga Bingham. And sometimes I do performances around town, so I might be in your city. And I will always mention it on Instagram so you can see me there.
Lindsey Epperly [00:39:05]:
Yes. Please show up to see her performances. They are, as we have discussed, actually last changing. Really beautiful. You are such an amazing human. Thank you for being on. Who made you the boss?
Margot Bingham [00:39:15]:
Thank you. This is so cool. Bye.